M 10-D monochrome please

[a.noctilux]

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Thanks a lot Pico, John,

My half-day long GAS disappeared.

So no M10-D for now and no Monochrom M10-D later neither.

I'll use what I have now and don' think for "upgrade to what ..." 😊

[pico]

24 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

[...]It also triggered a memory for me, which I’m sure you also feel - photography, proper photography, was black and white.  Colour was a gimmick, and a B&W image was what photography was really about.  I use Tri-X in my M-A, and I must confess I’m not sure I see an advantage to those images over the Monochrom ones (probably a reflection of my skill, or lack of it).

To be true, I should acquire a monochrome Leica.  When I made a living in news photography color was so bad, too expense to reproduce that we were discouraged. Not true in today's digital paradigm. My favorite personal photos are all B&W because that is all I used. MA faute.

I have an account to absorb a monochrome. Frankly it seems to be a career killer.
Tired. Sleep time, John

Edited October 26, 2018 by pico

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[Jeff S]

Only 40 years of b/w film and darkroom for me, and I used to think the same way as Pico.  After transitioning fully to digital in 2009, I’ve used the M8.2, M240 and now the M10 for both color and b/w work.  I posted here that I wouldn’t want to relinquish the advantages of color digital PP for my print workflow.  And I noted that I had enough discipline to still ‘see’ in b/w as needed, despite the color array.

Then earlier this year I bought a mint used MM1 with new sensor and Leica service as a supplement to the M10.  I’m glad I did.  Not only are the files special (depending of course on subject matter, lighting, etc), but I underestimated the benefits of the singular mindset that comes with the b/w only constraints.  I will never again use film (as I see a darkroom as crucial, and I won’t build a fifth), so the MM is as close as I’ll get for workflow.

On the other hand, I have no desire for an M-D, although I understand differing desires.  There are some digital benefits I don’t want to relinquish.

An M10M?  Not sure, but I’ll sure test it if it arrives.... without a silly advance lever, that is.

Jeff

[colint544]

I'm warming to the idea of the fake advance lever. I use a brass Thumbs Up lever on my M Monochrom mk1 because the camera is shaped like a bar of soap, and it simply doesn't feel secure without something to hold it by. The fold out fake lever looks to be an even better solution. Might they even go so far as to fit them on future M cameras which have screens?

I really hope Leica do an M Monochrom version of the M10. I'm priced out of the Leica market these days, even the second-hand prices are insane, so I'll be sticking with my faithful M Monochrom mk1 for as long as it lasts, but it would be nice to keep the line going. Philosophically, I think the idea of an M Mono in the Leica stable really adds to the gestalt of the company. .

[Belle123]

The lever thing.  My opinion is it is a plus.  Just consider, the position of the lever and where the shutter button and timing dial was designed on all prior 35mm film cameras.  Was all about ergonomics around film use.  Now, here comes digital, and they got rid of part of that equation and we end up with a slippery camera design!  Really, they could come up with a totally different kind of body for digital that would give us a more natural grip.  But, they stick with the film type of body design.  Oh well.

[Jeff S]

Many successfully used film Ms without ever using the film advance lever as a thumb rest, including me for several decades.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

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Camera gear discussions often result in car analogies, for better or worse.  Here I imagine Porsche putting a fake stick shift lever and clutch pedal in an automatic transmission Carrera for hand and foot rests.  

Jeff

[Likaleica]

I haven't handled the M10-D, but the idea of the faux film advance thumb lever appeals to me because

1. it frees up the hotshoe, and

2. you can use it or not, depending if you feel the need, without reaching into the bag for the Thumb's Up.

Also, I like the aesthetics, which is entirely subjective and individual.  

It does beg the question as to where the on/off switch would be if the M10M retains the rear LCD (which I hope it does).

[Likaleica]

6 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Many successfully used film Ms without ever using the film advance lever as a thumb rest, including me for several decades.

Jeff

I almost always used the film advance lever as a thumb rest with both M and R cameras.  To each his own.

[Friera]

I am exploring the idea of getting M10D and have Llewellyn Data Processing do a monochrome sensor convertion. 

 

 

 

 

[jaapv]

It not an original idea - but it is MUCH more difficult than stripping the IR filter off a sensor - and that is hard enough on an M camera. It would call for  a new filter stack and completely rewritten firmware.

[Friera]

Thanks jaapv, The waiting begins.

 

[Nick_S]

The Monochrom cameras only have one channel meaning that clipped highlights cannot be recovered from raw DNG images like an M-D camera with three colour channels. For this reason a screen with histogram and clipping display, preferably from DNG images like the first version, is needed for a Monochrom camera. 

[a.noctilux]

In my use, to prevent clipping with my Monochromes, I just use my choice of colored filters adapted to subject.

This came to me with experimentations and the learning curve is long and tedious if pleasant,

when the choice of right filter is there for the photo taken with the right gray palettes.

 

For example, with so famous "wash-out sky" with no filter, experiment of yellow/orange/even red filter can "cure" that (if the other tonals of subject permit of course).

 

M10 Monochrom would give me mostly same result I fear with mostly same sensor as M246.

Now that I appreciate the LV or EVF of M246 (over MM1), I even don't wait for that M10-D Mono or other Monochrome.

[Ken Abrahams]

I have M Monochrom, ccd and would seriously consider an M10 Mono if and when it became available. 

[evikne]

Will the different B&W profiles in Lightroom have no effect with the files from an M Monochrom?

[Likaleica]

On 8/14/2019 at 1:00 AM, evikne said:

Will the different B&W profiles in Lightroom have no effect with the files from an M Monochrom?

They do.  And Silver Effects also is very useful.  The biggest difference is the inability to apply color filters to the raw file for selective post-processing.  This can be taken further in Photoshop with luminosity masks to be highly selective with application of color channels.  Personally, I rarely go that far when post-processing anything.

BTW, I did try a M10D specifically to try the thumb rest.  It's not as secure as a Thumbs Up accessory, but it definitely helped steady the camera and it keeps the hot shoe free.  Maybe if it had a different design it might not disturb those who dislike the faux film advance lever look (which doesn't bother me - I rather like it).  A little flap that hangs down from the tip would make it feel more like a Thumbs Up.

[evikne]

22 minutes ago, Likaleica said:

They do.  And Silver Effects also is very useful.  The biggest difference is the inability to apply color filters to the raw file for selective post-processing.

Thanks! But don't the B&W profiles also mix the color channels in different ways, in addition to change the curves? So I guess the result can not be the same as with color files?

Edited August 16, 2019 by evikne

[evikne]

@Likaleica Are you sure you are talking about the M Monochrom? I downloaded some M 246 sample photos in DNG format and opened them in LR. No profiles were available at all, except the embedded profile from the camera. 

I am becoming increasingly interested in B&W photography, and an M10 Monochrom sounds tempting. But I am not sure I want to be without the possibilities with the LR profiles.

Edited August 17, 2019 by evikne

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[Linford]

On 10/25/2018 at 10:13 AM, a.noctilux said:

If we "Monochrome Lovers" ask hard enough, Leica Camera wouln't resist launching this ultimate Monochrom.

We have to wait some time.

I'd even accept the false-lever-wind-thumby.

 

Out of curiosity, as I've never use the wind-on lever as thumb support, I tried that with my M-A then M4,

😋

Oh my, that is not bad at all with hefty lens mounted.

I thought that I'd prefer plastic articulate M4 lever to hold,

but (short) experiences prove that the solid metal lever IS far strong-feel = so Leica choice of metal thumb rest is first-class 👍 👍

I have the M10-D. I’m a fan of the lever thumb support. I normally use the 0.95 Noctilux and it really does come in handy.  When I’m using the 28mm Elmarit, I leave the lever in. Perfect.