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which film M for pro-use?


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vor 13 Stunden schrieb frogfish:

Which film M would you recommend for high-volume professional work?

Any with the quick film-loading mechanism—i. e. M4 and later models. If you need framelines for 28 mm or 75 mm then M4-P or later. If you want an integrated light meter then avoid M4, M4-2, M4-P, and M-A. Older, well-used copies often need an overhaul but after that, they're mostly as good as a brand-new copy ... but if you can afford then for high-volume pro work better purchase a new camera. The MP and M-A use the M3-style film rewind knob (as opposed to a rewind crank)—that makes changing film slightly more tedious. I don't care—in fact, I like the knob better than the crank—but for fast and high-volume work it might be a disadvantage. But then, you can always add an accessory crank on top of the knob.

My choice is the Leica M-A. It is new, has a quick-load mechanism, a modern low-flare viewfinder with all six framelines, and—last not least—no electronics whatsoever, not even a battery compartment. Shooting meterless is liberating. On the other hand, that means carrying an extern hand-held meter for the difficult lighting situations but that's fine for me. I don't do high-volume work.

And get a Leicavit. That's essential for fast shooting.

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vor 57 Minuten schrieb 01af:

Any with the quick film-loading mechanism—i. e. M4 and later models. If you need framelines for 28 mm or 75 mm then M4-P or later. If you want an integrated light meter then avoid M4, M4-2, M4-P, and M-A. Older, well-used copies often need an overhaul but after that, they're mostly as good as a brand-new copy ... but if you can afford then for high-volume pro work better purchase a new camera. The MP and M-A use the M3-style film rewind knob (as opposed to a rewind crank)—that makes changing film slightly more tedious. I don't care—in fact, I like the knob better than the crank—but for fast and high-volume work it might be a disadvantage. But then, you can always add an accessory crank on top of the knob.

My choice is the Leica M-A. It is new, has a quick-load mechanism, a modern low-flare viewfinder with all six framelines, and—last not least—no electronics whatsoever, not even a battery compartment. Shooting meterless is liberating. On the other hand, that means carrying an extern hand-held meter for the difficult lighting situations but that's fine for me. I don't do high-volume work.

And get a Leicavit. That's essential for fast shooting.

thank you. Hm, yes, a Leicavit. Is it that much faster? bevor starting digital I used to shoot Leica R. Never had a problem with winding the film forward. 

 

heiko
 

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The M7 is the most versatile. Works great as a fully manual camera but also offers some automated exposure if that's your thing. It also has the most modern (in relative terms – this is Leica after all) flash metering of all film M bodies. I'd recommend you buy three of whichever model you choose. Even with an assistant changing films, a third body ensures that one is always available fully loaded.

 

As for the Leicavit, I don't personally find it any more useful than the wind lever on the camera. The Motor-M, on the other hand, can have it's uses.

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb wattsy:

The M7 is the most versatile. Works great as a fully manual camera but also offers some automated exposure if that's your thing. It also has the most modern (in relative terms – this is Leica after all) flash metering of all film M bodies. I'd recommend you buy three of whichever model you choose. Even with an assistant changing films, a third body ensures that one is always available fully loaded.

 

As for the Leicavit, I don't personally find it any more useful than the wind lever on the camera. The Motor-M, on the other hand, can have it's uses.

yeah, have also thought of about two Leicas and the Nikon FM2. Will see if I need it. The Leica will always have b/w film, the Nikon color. 

The only moment where you really need many shots in the row is gratulations after the ceremony... otherwise you always have peek moments with quite episodes after that. Just need to be sure to change film right before the peek moments...

 


Some problems I see is, when the light changes drastically, like coming from the church outside and vis/versa. Here I need to change films, eg from 400 to a pushed one of 1600 or so.

No motor for me, sure I get the shots with manually winding. You know, the M9 is not a speed-beast neither. Never got serious problems so far. The motor will take a way a lot of the quite-be-in-the-middle-of-things approach.

 

heiko

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Going forward concerning thumb/left finger/electric wind on :

- lever with thumb wind on = lightest an "purest forward" and easier charging film ( base plate can be kept between teeth or in pocket )

- Leicavit-M can help handling if big/heavy lens is used and has benefice of always looking in the finder

- Motor-M is nice (the last one is quieter and almost no "finger-push-up" phenomenon of previous model)

nowhere to put it when changing film is the only big trouble

with M-A rewinding finished film can take time, but the add-on cranks hurt my thumb and only few seconds gain.

So choises may be full of compromises 🤞...

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vor 48 Minuten schrieb frogfish:

Hm, yes, a Leicavit. Is it that much faster? Before starting digital I used to shoot Leica R. Never had a problem with winding the film forward.

Winding the film via the regular lever never is a problem of course. Yet, winding via the Leicavit sure is significantly easier and faster. Unlike a motorized winder, the additional size and weight is almost negligible. Mine is always attached to my M-A even though I use it only occasionally ... but whenever I want to shoot real fast, I'm happy to have it.

.

vor 21 Minuten schrieb frogfish:

The motor will take a way a lot of the quite-be-in-the-middle-of-things approach.

Yes, it will. Not so with the Leicavit.

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The only aperture priority film Leica M is the M7. 

The M6ttl light meter can no longer be repaired by Leica, or many independent repairers, if at all.

If you don’t want or need aperture priority, then M6 (second hand) or MP (new). The disadvantage of the MP is the slow film rewinding.  The advantage is it’s available new and is simply wonderful to use.  

I like your idea. Good luck!

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This is a very good thread for a number of reasons. Thanks for posting. Your photos are quite inspiring, BTW.

I know a number of young professionals who shoot weddings et al with film as a means of distinguishing themselves from the crowd. They deserve praise for being brave enough and for keeping film photography alive. May it never die.

I would grab a couple of M7's, new ones with the MP viewfinder, and put a Leicavit on each one. You could do the time-honored "one-color, one-B&W" thing if you want. Personally, I think the AE mode on the M7 is more conducive to capturing the right moment than the MA or MP (both of which are my personal favorites--but then again I'm working at leisure and don't have someone crying to me about missing the ring-bearer's awe or some other fleeting moment they must remember forever).

 

 

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I have shot a few weddings with two M bodies, M4 and M6 mainly. Exchanged the M6 for an MP and can only wholeheartedly recommend these, especially the M4 and MP. I had a few technical difficulties with my M6s over the years but the M4 and MP never missed a beat. 

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb abrewer:

This is a very good thread for a number of reasons. Thanks for posting. Your photos are quite inspiring, BTW.

I know a number of young professionals who shoot weddings et al with film as a means of distinguishing themselves from the crowd. They deserve praise for being brave enough and for keeping film photography alive. May it never die.

I would grab a couple of M7's, new ones with the MP viewfinder, and put a Leicavit on each one. You could do the time-honored "one-color, one-B&W" thing if you want. Personally, I think the AE mode on the M7 is more conducive to capturing the right moment than the MA or MP (both of which are my personal favorites--but then again I'm working at leisure and don't have someone crying to me about missing the ring-bearer's awe or some other fleeting moment they must remember forever).

 

 

Thank you for your kind words (0:

You always have the time to set the exposure. You scan the place/room where the things are going to happen. Then you get two till three settings which you need to remember depending where the situation will take place e.g. sun vs shadow. Within a spit second you got your shutter speed dialled in.

I know quite some proffs who shoot weddings on film, but so far never seen a really good reportage. Most is set up, posed and portrait stuff. This is where we can set ourselves apart from the rest.

 

heiko

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19 hours ago, frogfish said:

of course everybody has his own approach. But I do not document. (0:
If this was my goal I would put a go-pro in the corner of the room...

And, I shoot the wedding like I want to show it, not like the clients want. That is clear right from the start. Otherwise it would be no fun.

 

Heiko

Nice, no "client knows best' then, maybe its just me but I see know reason to shoot a wedding on film (especially 35mm), but good luck if it works for you.

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35 minutes ago, Frase said:

Nice, no "client knows best' then, maybe its just me but I see know reason to shoot a wedding on film (especially 35mm), but good luck if it works for you.

Why should a client know better than the professional photographer they are hiring?? I think it's great the frogfish is offering this kind of service... if more professionals did maybe we still have some of the great film Kodak and Fuji and others have been dumping.

On the other hand, sorry frogfish, but I don't like your photos at all. Headless bride ? Overexposed ghostlike image? I find them quite morbid. I like it that you have the guts to do something different but do brides really like these ?

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vor 35 Minuten schrieb ianman:

Why should a client know better than the professional photographer they are hiring?? I think it's great the frogfish is offering this kind of service... if more professionals did maybe we still have some of the great film Kodak and Fuji and others have been dumping.

On the other hand, sorry frogfish, but I don't like your photos at all. Headless bride ? Overexposed ghostlike image? I find them quite morbid. I like it that you have the guts to do something different but do brides really like these ?

Yes, they do. What you see here is the topping. The also get a decent reportage...

like this:

https://just-schmidt.com/signature-weddings/

 

you know, not every bride needs to love our work. 20 a year is enough. And, if a bride likes what she sees, then there's no other choice. There is no competition.

 

heiko

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And even though I did not mention it in my previous post, currently my favorite film camera is an M5.  Now, it will be criticized by many here as not being a classic M, being too big or too ugly, etc.  Well, Leica spent years (have heard over ten) in its development and really expected it to be state of the art rangefinder when it was introduced.  It probably failed due to the conservative Leica audience, the popularity of SLR's (Nikon F) at the time, and the Leica CL which was one third the price.  It did not fail because it did not work.

I have owned just about every film M made starting with a CL in 1975 and then all the M's as they were introduced.  I like the M6, M2 and M4 and had never tried an M5 until two years ago.  Now it is my favorite film body as the shutter speed dial, the spot metering, and rapid film loading and rewinding just work.  Yes, it is different in shape and size of the classic film bodies but every professional Nikon made after the Nikon F is different from the original but they dominated photojournalism for years and years.

Honestly, you owe it to yourself to try an M5 before making a final decision.  Perhaps you can borrow one.  Good luck.

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To me personally, Riccis Valladares is among the best wedding photographers I have ever seen. And he shoots with one or two film Leica Ms. So there is definitely space for great wedding work on 35mm film. If you have a good lab that produces the results you are looking for it can take a lot of time off of your post processing work. 

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