Finally, decided on the M-9 but some questions remain

[LyleBright]

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Some days back I got some help with questions and it helped a good deal. Now, I am decided on the M-9.

One question I have is about the LCD display.

1) I understand -- please correct me if I have this wrong -- that the M9-P has a *better* LCD 'sapphire glass' (more durable). Is this so?

2) Is it true that the M9 has an LCD said to be made of gorilla glass? How do they get the gorillas to make it and, can one rely on their workmanship (pitiful attempt at a joke...proceed to No. 3)

3) I do not anticipate heavy use of the camera, but are folks generally satisfied with the performance of the LCD display that comes with the M9?

4) If the sapphire display is better, what does it cost to replace?

I have my sights on a camera. It is an M9 with the sensor replaced but otherwise it is original. Anything I should watch out for? be concerned about?

I thank you sincerely for your advice. 

LB

 

[Robert M Poole]

1 minute ago, LyleBright said:

Some days back I got some help with questions and it helped a good deal. Now, I am decided on the M-9.

One question I have is about the LCD display.

1) I understand -- please correct me if I have this wrong -- that the M9-P has a *better* LCD 'sapphire glass' (more durable). Is this so?

2) Is it true that the M9 has an LCD said to be made of gorilla glass? How do they get the gorillas to make it and, can one rely on their workmanship (pitiful attempt at a joke...proceed to No. 3)

3) I do not anticipate heavy use of the camera, but are folks generally satisfied with the performance of the LCD display that comes with the M9?

4) If the sapphire display is better, what does it cost to replace?

I have my sights on a camera. It is an M9 with the sensor replaced but otherwise it is original. Anything I should watch out for? be concerned about?

I thank you sincerely for your advice. 

LB

 

1. I've got a standard m9 and had no problems with the LCD.

2. pay peanuts, get monkeys. 

 

The advantage of the M9P I'd say is the larger buffer rather than the LCD. 

 

Make sure the sensor has been replaced with the new corrosion proof sensor rather than a first Gen replacement. 

 

It's a great camera, enjoy. 

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[Jean-Michel]

I have an M9. The lcd viewer is fine for setting menus and for viewing the histogram, and that is the extent of its usefulness. I would not worry about the glass. If the camera has a new sensor, it came back from Leica with a Shott lcd cover. Do make sure that the camera does have a current sensor, or get a deep discount. 

Fyi: the Leica dealer in Montreal, Canada, just posted a M9 for what looks like an excellent price. With the US/CDN currency it might be a good deal for a US buyer. Their website is camtecphoto.com, navigate to their Leica boutique site.

[ianman]

13 minutes ago, LyleBright said:

1) I understand -- please correct me if I have this wrong -- that the M9-P has a *better* LCD 'sapphire glass' (more durable). Is this so?

2) Is it true that the M9 has an LCD said to be made of gorilla glass? How do they get the gorillas to make it and, can one rely on their workmanship (pitiful attempt at a joke...proceed to No. 3)

3) I do not anticipate heavy use of the camera, but are folks generally satisfied with the performance of the LCD display that comes with the M9?

4) If the sapphire display is better, what does it cost to replace?

I have my sights on a camera. It is an M9 with the sensor replaced but otherwise it is original. Anything I should watch out for? be concerned about?

1. The M9-P glass is supposed to be less scratch prone. It's not a better quality display. I have had my M9 (not "P"), since December 09. I don't baby it, it's brassing nicely, but I haven't a single mark on the screen. 

2. Shhhhh, you'll give Leica ideas !

3. The display of the M9 is not very good. Don't get me wrong, it works ok, but don't rely on it at all to check your photos. Take a look at the histogram but don't rely on the image displayed.

4. Don't know. They did offer an M9 to M9-P upgrade option at some point but I doubt that is still available, it may be, I suggest you email Customer Service for more info.

Like Robert wrote, make sure it is the latest sensor (replaced after October 2015 IIRC). Also, check the shutter actuation count, just make sure it's not too high.

[LyleBright]

6 minutes ago, ianman said:

Like Robert wrote, make sure it is the latest sensor (replaced after October 2015 IIRC). Also, check the shutter actuation count, just make sure it's not too high.

Thanks much for this advice. What in your view would be high? 

Is the issue of a high count for the shutter?

Or would the sensor, perhaps, burn out after many exposures?

Or both...

[LyleBright]

10 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

Fyi: the Leica dealer in Montreal, Canada, just posted a M9 for what looks like an excellent price. With the US/CDN currency it might be a good deal for a US buyer. Their website is camtecphoto.com, navigate to their Leica boutique site.

I saw it. It is a pretty good deal. My issue is with import duties...

One can avoid that with lower cost items, but this is not a minor item.

I appreciate the heads-up though!

[ianman]

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11 minutes ago, LyleBright said:

Thanks much for this advice. What in your view would be high? 

Is the issue of a high count for the shutter?

Or would the sensor, perhaps, burn out after many exposures?

Or both...

Yes I was just talking about the actual count.

I'm not a machine-gun type shooter so my view of high is quite low. The minimum expected life-cycle of the shutter is not known as far as I am aware, but it should be at least 100k - 150k. With the M9 having just passed it's ninth birthday, you could start finding some with large counts... but even then, not very many would be approaching 100k I would think. It's just something I thought worth mentioning in passing. I'd want to know if I were buying one.

To find the count you can access the "service menu"... but be careful, just look and don't make any changes !!!!

Here's how you access the menu: 

Press:

Delete

Up x2

Down x4

Left x3

Right x3

Info

The shutter count is displayed in the debug info.

[TomB_tx]

Further to what others have said about the M9 display: it is fine for a quick check of the image, and the histogram for exposure. You can zoom in quite far to check the plane of focus, however it is not good for judging actual sharpness. The lcd image never looks as sharp as the image pulled into a pc, and as a result isn’t good for sharpness comparisons. However, I’ve used mine since 2010 and find it fine for my use. (However, as an old film shooter I seldom check the image after shooting it, and usually wait until I’ve copied to a PC.)

[schattenundlicht]

1 minute ago, TomB_tx said:

Further to what others have said about the M9 display: it is fine for a quick check of the image, and the histogram for exposure. You can zoom in quite far to check the plane of focus, however it is not good for judging actual sharpness. The lcd image never looks as sharp as the image pulled into a pc, and as a result isn’t good for sharpness comparisons. However, I’ve used mine since 2010 and find it fine for my use. (However, as an old film shooter I seldom check the image after shooting it, and usually wait until I’ve copied to a PC.)

+1

Fine for menu and histogram. For focus accuracy,  as one of my first supervisors used to say: "One cannot protect oneself against experience"

 

[Jean-Michel]

2 hours ago, LyleBright said:

I saw it. It is a pretty good deal. My issue is with import duties...

One can avoid that with lower cost items, but this is not a minor item.

I appreciate the heads-up though!

As far as I know there are no duties for photographic equipment between the US and Canada, the staff at Camtec should be able to confirm that for you.

[Ko.Fe.]

I put screen protector at all of my cameras.

I check if it is in focus by using zoom function. 

[LyleBright]

On 10/14/2018 at 11:45 AM, ianman said:

Like Robert wrote, make sure it is the latest sensor (replaced after October 2015 IIRC). Also, check the shutter actuation count, just make sure it's not too high.

Hello there. I am uncertain what IIRC refers to. But you are saying that after October of 2015 they replaced it with the more desirable sensor? Obviously, that is what you are saying . . . just double checking as I posed the date question to the seller (have yet to hear). 

[schattenundlicht]

15 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

I put screen protector at all of my cameras.

I check if it is in focus by using zoom function. 

M9 does not have Live View.

The screen can only be used to try to discern focus in playback mode. However, as others have already stated, in my experience the images never look sharp / properly in focus on the M9‘s rearscreen, even when zooming to the max, there remains a certain blur, which fortunately is not present in the final image as viewed on a postprocessing workstation. It loks as if the camera firmware softens the image in high zoom magnifications to avoid pixelization. Anyway, the screen really is helpful only for checking composition and histogram (and for setting the menu).

[LyleBright]

I have another question: Did the M9-P come with the better sensor, or does the original sensor in the M9-P also have to be replaced?

 

Another question: PS: If a Leica dealer or tech looks over the M9 sensor and says that it "has no problem" is it wise to take that as meaning it will shoot and record images of the same quality as a replaced sensor camera?

Edited October 15, 2018 by LyleBright

[otto.f]

Ad 4. It’ll be more expensive than finding an M9P with a slightly higher price than an M9. I doubt however whether this upgrade service to sapphire glass still exists

[otto.f]

11 minutes ago, LyleBright said:

I have another question: Did the M9-P come with the better sensor, or does the original sensor in the M9-P also have to be replaced?

 

Another question: PS: If a Leica dealer or tech looks over the M9 sensor and says that it "has no problem" is it wise to take that as meaning it will shoot and record images of the same quality as a replaced sensor camera?

The original M9P has the corrosion prone sensor. 

‘Has no problem’ is not the right answer, which is: the sensor is replaced by the non-corrosion one (this is after 201x, you can find the exact year on this forum)

[otto.f]

Ad 3. I use the lcd screen only to check composition. I don’t ask for such a tiny screen to tell me whether the colors are meticulously right

[jdlaing]

The sensors on the M-9 and M9-P are all the same. The sensor is not what corroded. It was the cover glass coatings that corroded.

[ianman]

48 minutes ago, LyleBright said:

Hello there. I am uncertain what IIRC refers to. But you are saying that after October of 2015 they replaced it with the more desirable sensor? Obviously, that is what you are saying . . . just double checking as I posed the date question to the seller (have yet to hear). 

IIRC => If I Recall Correctly

Yes, when the corrosion issue first appeared, Leica changed the sensors but had not yet developed the new version. I think (but you should check this) that any sensor replaced after October 2015 or thereabouts should be the new corrosion issue free version. If in any doubt, email Customer Services at Leica with the serial number and they should be able to tell you which sensor the camera has.

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[pico]

1 hour ago, LyleBright said:

PS: If a Leica dealer or tech looks over the M9 sensor and says that it "has no problem" is it wise to take that as meaning it will shoot and record images of the same quality as a replaced sensor camera?

I would not take the dealer's word for it any more than a used car salesman's opinion. Skepticism is healthy.