Exposing for Highlights

[Michael Naylor]

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7 minutes ago, evikne said:

I would go for full manual mode with the M10 too. I always do that myself. To me, that is the fastest, most natural, most direct and reliable way to use a Leica M. I may take a look at the exposure metering (red dot and arrows) in the viewfinder before the first shot, but only as a clue for my manual settings.

To preserve the highlights, I simply point the viewfinder against the light source and adjust the ISO/shutter speed/aperture so the right red arrow disappears. If I have time, I may take a test shot and eventually make some adjustments before I go on. As long as the light is the same, I don’t need to bother anymore with the exposure and can rather concentrate on more important things, like capturing the right moments.

And if  something goes wrong, I can only blame myself, not the camera.

Thank you evikne.  This is exactly the king of answer I was looking for.  Living in Spain is not the best place to find a Leica shop where I can hold an M10 in my hands.  I have to rely on reviews and this forum.  I was unaware of these red dots and arrows, so thank you for pointing this out.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, mkenaylor said:

Getting back to my original post, I'm currently using a Q in full manual mode.  I'm loving the idea of getting back to basics.  The Q's lens even has a DOF scale!  So I'm dreaming of owning an M10-P and 2 or 3 of Leica lenses...

I'm sold on the idea of using a range finder optical viewfinder, but I've also grown to appreciate the speed of assessing highlight clipping via the Q's live view EVF.  So my question was, what would be speediest way of assessing highlight clipping with an M10?

I'm not interested in hearing what a Sony can do, because it isn't a Leica.

‘Capture Assistants’ in the M10’s main menu has two useful items: Exposure Clipping which I set to 1/254 for highlights, and Exposure Simulation which I set to Permanent for when I use LiveView. I then vary the exposure compensation if necessary with the thumbwheel ( always negative EV for the same reasons Nowhereman explained).

Edited October 16, 2018 by Guest

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[Michael Naylor]

32 minutes ago, Jono said:

‘Capture Assistants’ in the M10’s main menu has two useful items: Exposure Clipping which I set to 1/254 for highlights, and Exposure Simulation which I set to Permanent for when I use LiveView. I then vary the exposure compensation if necessary with the thumbwheel ( always negative EV for the same reasons Nowhereman explained).

Thank you Jono.  I particularly like the the idea of being able to set my own value for  Exposure Clipping.

[Chaemono]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb mkenaylor:

If I was interested in non range finder cameras I wouldn't be trolling a Leica forum.

‘Please, stop posting links to Raw files. We can’t take it no more.’ Let me think about it...Okay, I thought about it, no.

[SMAL]

@Chaemono you either are a troll or are just newbie. I totally mean the M10 tends to underexpose, cause it does in aperture priority.

You set manual exposure, over expose your shots and then blame the camera, that just did what you wanted. 

Comparing the histograms showed that the Sony A73 was 1/3 of stop exposed brighter. 

You don’t make your self look very good with these comparisons, cause it seems like you have very low technical understanding.

But I think you already proved why you want to make the M10 look better than it is. You are afraid that your resale value sinks. My tip would be, put the M10 in a box and don’t use it. This will keep the resale value at the top and we don’t have to bother with your senseless comparisons anymore. 

[Chaemono]

I own both, an α7R III and an M10, in case you didn’t notice by the suffix ‘ARW’ so logically I’m indifferent. But I hate being sold a DxOMark score 100 sensor and G Master lenses that turn out to suck. Simple. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Chaemono

[Guest]

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46 minutes ago, mkenaylor said:

Thank you Jono.  I particularly like the the idea of being able to set my own value for  Exposure Clipping.

I should perhaps add that after using the Q as my main camera for 3 years, I find that the M10 is very different with regard to exposure and indicated ISO.

For example, I usually use my Q at indicated ISO 1600 at night or in dim light, and my M246 at ISO 2500, but I’m having to use my M10 at much higher indicated ISOs to get the same shutter speed at the same aperture (with my 28mm Summicron). At night, I’m typically using my M10 at ISO 6400 or higher.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Guest

[Chaemono]

I should perhaps add that I used to use the α7R III most of the time but after Jono’s review of the M10 where he showed how great the IQ of that sensor is the M10 is now by far my preferred camera.

[pgh]

On 10/15/2018 at 4:49 PM, Chaemono said:

 Sony clips highlights.

If you're having a problem with a Sony clipping highlights and not with the Leica that's great, but that experience flies in the face of myself and most other users. You have to really work hard to get a blown exposure with a Sony. The Leica will do it by default in many situations. Yes, I know, not if you outsmart what the camera wants to do in most situations  - but the DR of the Sony files is superior - especially at base ISO which is where it matters most. You're not the only one who has both, most of us just don't bother to conduct tests and post them because our experience on our own computers and printers is all the confirmation we need. 

[pgh]

15 hours ago, mkenaylor said:

 So my question was, what would be speediest way of assessing highlight clipping with an M10?

Pretend you're using a digital sensor from the previous generation, a CCD possibly even, and shoot it like you would with that. 

Or to be safe, 1-2 stops under (1.5-2 if highlights are important) when strong light differential and make peace with the post processing work/(headache?) in the shadows that will be necessary.

Or just manually expose and chuck the meter for everything but flatly lit scenes.

May sound a bit drastic, but this is what it took for me to essentially stop having this problem, and it's a pain compared to the other sensors. 

[gyoung]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:32 PM, indergaard said:

Test shots, use live view or EVF, or shoot constantly with -0.7 exposure compensation. 

Constant + exposure compensation is an oversimplstic approach, need to learn about how the scene is lit and is measured and what you are trying to achieve on your recording media, whether film or digital.   Knowing how your meter works is a fundamental part of learning a camera.

With my M6, and with my M3 with MC, MR and Voigtlander meters when faced with a scene with a lot of sky or water it was necessary to exclude those overbright areas from the measurement, and it isn't any different with my Nikons either. If you have an evenly lit scene its a different story.  The meter expects a roughy 18% reflectance and if it doesn't get it it will mislead, just bear that in mind. 

Incident meters are the best but as  mentioned above they need intelligent interpretation on occasions!

Gerry 

Edited October 17, 2018 by gyoung

[Michael Naylor]

Many thanks to all for sharing your experiences regarding exposure.  Also, there appears to be a consensus for needing more DR than the M10 currently offers.  So the big question for me comes down to - are we likely to see an updated M11 anytime soon?   Should I buy now, or should I hang on for a few months?

[Guest Nowhereman]

mkenaylor - I don't think that the problem is the dynamic range of the M10. Rather, it seems to me, that the M10 is boosting contrast in a way that blows out or exaggerates the highlights — this presumably is caused by the processing that Leica applies to the M10 DNG files. I would guess that changing this so that the camera would produce flatter DNG files, with less contrast, the way the Leica SL or the Sony A7rIII does would solve the problem. 
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
Nowhereman Instagram

Edited October 17, 2018 by Nowhereman

[elmars]

To use the Adobe Standard Profile in Lightroom instead of Adobe Color is a good step to reduce contrast.

[SMAL]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb mkenaylor:

Many thanks to all for sharing your experiences regarding exposure.  Also, there appears to be a consensus for needing more DR than the M10 currently offers.  So the big question for me comes down to - are we likely to see an updated M11 anytime soon?   Should I buy now, or should I hang on for a few months?

That’s a strange conclusion out of all these answers. The DR of the M10 is totally fine and more than enough, even when it’s not the greatest of all cameras.

It therefore produces way nicer colors and is just a beauty to work with. 

[Chaemono]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb mkenaylor:

Many thanks to all for sharing your experiences regarding exposure.  Also, there appears to be a consensus for needing more DR than the M10 currently offers.  So the big question for me comes down to - are we likely to see an updated M11 anytime soon?   Should I buy now, or should I hang on for a few months?

Hang on for a few months. I hear the next SL will come with an M-mount.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Chaemono

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Hang on for a few months. I hear the next SL will come with an M-mount.

Nonsense. And the next M is two years away. 

[Chaemono]

It’ll be called the SL-M. 

[SMAL]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

Hang on for a few months. I hear the next SL will come with an M-mount.

Sure, Leica announces the L-Mount Alliance to then switch their L-Mount Flagship to an M-Mount. 😂

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dkmoore]

10 hours ago, Chaemono said:

It’ll be called the SL-M. 

No.