Michael Naylor Posted October 9, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 9, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I like to expose for the highlights. My Leica Q has a live view finder that flashes when highlights will be over exposed. I use it in full manual mode and love it, but there are occasions when a longer lens would be nice. I'm wondering how I'd cope with an M10 and if I'd have to do a test shot each time - or could I rely on auto exposure? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Hi Michael Naylor, Take a look here Exposing for Highlights. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
indergaard Posted October 9, 2018 Share #2 Posted October 9, 2018 Test shots, use live view or EVF, or shoot constantly with -0.7 exposure compensation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAL Posted October 10, 2018 Share #3 Posted October 10, 2018 vor 23 Stunden schrieb indergaard: Test shots, use live view or EVF, or shoot constantly with -0.7 exposure compensation. Why? Most of my shots are under exposed by at least 1 stop when shooting through the rangefinder with center weighted metering. @mkenaylor because of the center weighted metering of the M10 A LOT of shots will be automatically under exposed. I shoot with manual ISO and shutter speed in A and just be careful that the shutter speed doesn´t drop too low. When you have a really dark background and a bright subject, then apply some exposure compensation like -1 and you are good to go. Otherwise you´ll barely need it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted October 10, 2018 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2018 39 minutes ago, SMAL said: Why? Most of my shots are under exposed by at least 1 stop when shooting through the rangefinder with center weighted metering. @mkenaylor because of the center weighted metering of the M10 A LOT of shots will be automatically under exposed. I shoot with manual ISO and shutter speed in A and just be careful that the shutter speed doesn´t drop too low. When you have a really dark background and a bright subject, then apply some exposure compensation like -1 and you are good to go. Otherwise you´ll barely need it. I guess you don’t have a lot of bright skies outside the center weighted metering area then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAL Posted October 10, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 10, 2018 vor einer Stunde schrieb indergaard: I guess you don’t have a lot of bright skies outside the center weighted metering area then. I do, but my skies usually also go over the whole image in the open field and that´s when the M10 under exposes really fast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted October 11, 2018 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2018 11 hours ago, SMAL said: I do, but my skies usually also go over the whole image in the open field and that´s when the M10 under exposes really fast. Try turning the camera vertically and see the difference in exposure. Ever since Leica M’s became digital it is crucial to use exposure compensation of about -0.7 to make sure that highlights are not blown. Especially on the Monochrom cameras. The center weighted metering is easily fooled. I guess it totally depends on how people shoot of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted October 11, 2018 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the film days when I shot slide film it was also critical to not blow out the highlights, and there were no electronic nannies. I guess my experience still serves me now, as I keep auto-review set to off. Experience knowing the contrast range (of film or sensor) allows one to meter a neutral tone and know if any adjustment will be needed to preserve highlight detail. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted October 15, 2018 Share #8 Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 6:04 AM, indergaard said: Ever since Leica M’s became digital it is crucial to use exposure compensation of about -0.7 to make sure that highlights are not blown. Especially on the Monochrom cameras. The M10 is my first and only Leica, and like SMAL I also find that it tends to underexpose, not overexpose, by default. I've gotten used to pointing at the ground to lock in exposure before addressing a scene with skies in it, so that I'm not past the point of no return in terms of recovering shadows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 15, 2018 Share #9 Posted October 15, 2018 You are kidding, right? Why not just use some positive exposure compensation instead? BTW, there is no need to fear that one won’t be able to recover shadow details with the M10. DR is the best of any digital M so far. I’ll post some images and some links to Raw files latter on. I get the sense that we’ll have some fun in this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted October 15, 2018 Share #10 Posted October 15, 2018 A good incident meter will do the job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Naylor Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share #11 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, astrostl said: The M10 is my first and only Leica, and like SMAL I also find that it tends to underexpose, not overexpose, by default. I've gotten used to pointing at the ground to lock in exposure before addressing a scene with skies in it, so that I'm not past the point of no return in terms of recovering shadows. When you do that you risk over exposing the sky or anything that is bright. Once clipped, there is no way to recover anything. However, under exposed shadows can be significantly lifted - or just allowed to fade into black. Edited October 15, 2018 by mkenaylor 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Naylor Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chuck Albertson said: A good incident meter will do the job. Not for a black cat with a bright light behind it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted October 15, 2018 Share #13 Posted October 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, mkenaylor said: Not for a black cat with a bright light behind it. And please remember there is more than one way to skin a cat. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAL Posted October 15, 2018 Share #14 Posted October 15, 2018 vor 2 Stunden schrieb astrostl: The M10 is my first and only Leica, and like SMAL I also find that it tends to underexpose, not overexpose, by default. I've gotten used to pointing at the ground to lock in exposure before addressing a scene with skies in it, so that I'm not past the point of no return in terms of recovering shadows. I am pretty happy with how it exposes. I never had an issue that it under exposed to a point that it wasn’t recoverable. The only time when I need a negative exposure compensation is when shooting right into the sun. Yesterday I’ve shot some photo at ISO6400 and it was basically pitch black at the beach and the M10 nailed it. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290339-exposing-for-highlights/?do=findComment&comment=3613103'>More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 15, 2018 Share #15 Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 11:32 PM, indergaard said: ... shoot constantly with -0.7 exposure compensation. +1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 15, 2018 Share #16 Posted October 15, 2018 vor 2 Stunden schrieb astrostl: The M10 is my first and only Leica, and like SMAL I also find that it tends to underexpose, not overexpose, by default. I've gotten used to pointing at the ground to lock in exposure before addressing a scene with skies in it, so that I'm not past the point of no return in terms of recovering shadows. The M10 exposes just right. In order to understand why, see the discussion in this thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3794936 particularly the third reply by Mitrajoon. To paraphrase him, assuming you are shooting Raw, the nature of the M10' sensor works in such as way that it allows one to protect the highlights. Depending on the characteristics of the scene, one can then increase exposure in post and recover details in the shadows. Let's look at a couple of examples with the same lens on the α7R III and the M10. The JPEGs here are exported from LR with no adjustments whatsoever and links to the Raw files are provided. Sony blows. α7R III + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/4.0 @1/2000 sec. ARW file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g761517904-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=l3rEuOAvvRqh-F6oMO3hWGwYqf1pvpBE1wbakLiON5Y= Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And look how much better the M10 exposes the same scene. M10 + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/4.0 @1/2000 sec. DNG file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g935169348-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=DU9n7eVRVMNoy_L_7vpJCnZ_XUZxCIsm3ydH9DttY4k= Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And look how much better the M10 exposes the same scene. M10 + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/4.0 @1/2000 sec. DNG file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g935169348-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=DU9n7eVRVMNoy_L_7vpJCnZ_XUZxCIsm3ydH9DttY4k= ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290339-exposing-for-highlights/?do=findComment&comment=3613114'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 15, 2018 Share #17 Posted October 15, 2018 Let's show two more. Man does that Sony DxOMark score 100 sensor clip highlights (I guess, folks over at DxOMark were smoking some G Master weed 😀) α7R III + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/2.0 @1/2000 sec. ARW file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g1048879071-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=fGWbSsPNQyQp9s1QY90PaZUcr4g2Bh_dmueiqOewKic= Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And now the same scene much better exposed with the M10. M10 + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/2.0 @1/2000 sec. DNG file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g905440933-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=hRFREWU9Yho2pkCal4FKgSqGCBqLFurzTVvEwY8bckw= Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And now the same scene much better exposed with the M10. M10 + 35 Summicron-M ISO 640 f/2.0 @1/2000 sec. DNG file: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g905440933-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=hRFREWU9Yho2pkCal4FKgSqGCBqLFurzTVvEwY8bckw= ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290339-exposing-for-highlights/?do=findComment&comment=3613125'>More sharing options...
SMAL Posted October 15, 2018 Share #18 Posted October 15, 2018 @Chaemono how did you meter with the Sony and how with the M10? And how have your general settings been. My A73 or R3 never fuck up an exposure like that. And the M10 with center weighted metering would definitely exposed it lower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 15, 2018 Share #19 Posted October 15, 2018 vor 10 Minuten schrieb SMAL: @Chaemono how did you meter with the Sony and how with the M10? And how have your general settings been. My A73 or R3 never fuck up an exposure like that. And the M10 with center weighted metering would definitely exposed it lower. It's manual settings, meetering doesn't matter. What matters is that one uses the exact same aperture, shutter speed, and ISO with the same lens on both cameras in scenes with extreme highlights and shadows and then one sees which of the two cameras is able to capture more information in the extreme highlights while recovering for shadow details and observing the histogram. You tell me which of the two cameras at ISO 640 sucks. 😀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAL Posted October 15, 2018 Share #20 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) vor 50 Minuten schrieb Chaemono: It's manual settings, meetering doesn't matter. What matters is that one uses the exact same aperture, shutter speed, and ISO with the same lens on both cameras in scenes with extreme highlights and shadows and then one sees which of the two cameras is able to capture more information in the extreme highlights while recovering for shadow details and observing the histogram. You tell me which of the two cameras at ISO 640 sucks. 😀 So why have you over exposed these shots then? This isn’t even showing how any of these cameras work. So pretty nonsens. This just shows that you can’t expose correctly. Edited October 15, 2018 by SMAL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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