johannielscom Posted October 4, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 4, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Back in the day, it was possible to pay for an upgrade of your Leica. You would hand your Leica screw mount camera in at the factory and have it converted to a newer model. Over time, many original models were upgraded like this. I find these upgraded cameras interesting to find, investigate and shoot. And yesterday, the mailman brought me a camera with very interesting specifications. The article (with detailed pictures) that I wrote on my new camera is here: https://www.johanniels.com/en/camera-gear-blog-posts/leica/133-an-early-leica-i-converted-to-a-iii Leica no. 11378 conversion by Johan Niels Kuiper, on Flickr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 Hi johannielscom, Take a look here Leica conversions, who has one?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
romanus53 Posted October 4, 2018 Share #2 Posted October 4, 2018 Congrats to your find and your story.! I've some similar Leitz-factory upgrades. I think the lens-upgrade was done before 1951 when the red-scale with diamond-index type was brought to market. The flash-sync looks good but I don't think it was made by Leitz. There was a strong demand for flash at that time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannielscom Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted October 4, 2018 Congrats to your find and your story.! I've some similar Leitz-factory upgrades. I think the lens-upgrade was done before 1951 when the red-scale with diamond-index type was brought to market. The flash-sync looks good but I don't think it was made by Leitz. There was a strong demand for flash at that time. Thank you Romanus, that helps me reconstruct the history of the camera Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanus53 Posted October 5, 2018 Share #4 Posted October 5, 2018 Just had a look at your Pictures posted seperatly the lens Serial number might be one of the earliest stamped on a lens, they didn't nubered the lenes outside as long as they were fixed to the body. These early lenses are appr. 1mm Shorter than the later ones, even if transferred in a later lensbody. If you remove the top cover of the camera you should see the body's Serial number stamped on the top right side. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276822-whats-the-true-story-surrounding-the-birth-of-red-scale-elmars/page-2#entry3360390 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted October 5, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 5, 2018 very interesting topic, the Leica conversions. Depending what features/parts have been used it is posible to reconstruct the histroy, sometimes even to few month. My remarks below relates when Leitz was using particular parts and features in regular production. While it gives already pretty good time indication it is possible that for conversions Leitrz was using "old" stock. Flash sync - not from Leitz, many repair shops were offering it Lens - not original from the camera, is later production. Was nickeled, 11 oclock with infinity stop and not coated when produced. Interesting is combination of markings on distance scale together with stop f16 - Leitz had it in production in 1942, early 1943, changing to f22 later. Lens were coated for military production from 1942, all lenses after 1946. Some converted lenses (with no SN) haver shorter barrel as romanus indicated. I believe shorter barrel is in combination with original optics (fix monted lenses from IA are closer to a film plane by 1mm than interchangeable. In converted lenses Leitz replaced sometimes mount only leaving optics and optical cell from original, but sometimes the whole lens was replaced including optics and old SN has been stamped. Opening the lens, seeing the optical cell could possibly give more indications Camera - have to admit that I have mixed feelings about the camera, there are few facts which could possibly indicate one of the conversions done by repair shop. Poor quality of chrome plating on top and bottom plate is not typical for Leitz (Leitz had chrome plating problem in 1949/50). Some fitting are nickeled, very rarely Leitz was doing mixed chrome/nickel conversions). Shallow engravings on bottom plate indicate that it was black painted with wismuth fillings, the size of pin for hooking the bottom plate could provide some info if this is original from the camera or was replaced later. Engravings on the top cover are bit shaky, looks like they were redone (top cover could have been black paint with Wismuth). Conversion to III was done in 1933 - missing brake for the first curtain indicate it. But was it black paint or chrome at that time? I think rather black paint with nickeled parts and rechroming was done later by third party (and some elements have been left with nickel). Again - opening the camera will give more details to be more precise. Original SN must be still engraved under the top cover, rangefinder (you must remove it to see). During conversions Leitz was scratching SN under the top cover, between the luntes of rangefinder. I wrote few articles (for US Viewfinder and German Vidom) about interesting conversions from my collection. If you are interested send me (via PM) your email 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted October 5, 2018 Share #6 Posted October 5, 2018 i enjoyed reading this post https://www.johanniels.com/en/camera-gear-blog-posts/leica/114-leica-ltm-lenses Back in the day, it was possible to pay for an upgrade of your Leica. You would hand your Leica screw mount camera in at the factory and have it converted to a newer model. Over time, many original models were upgraded like this. I find these upgraded cameras interesting to find, investigate and shoot. And yesterday, the mailman brought me a camera with very interesting specifications. The article (with detailed pictures) that I wrote on my new camera is here: https://www.johanniels.com/en/camera-gear-blog-posts/leica/133-an-early-leica-i-converted-to-a-iii Leica no. 11378 conversion by Johan Niels Kuiper, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 6, 2018 Share #7 Posted October 6, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a Reid and Sigrist conversion. It was assembled by a Reid and Sigrist engineer for his own use. It uses the main body from an unsold R&S Model 1 which originally had no rangefinder (similar to a Leica If or Ig) and with the highest known serial number on the internal body of any R&S camera in the 349X range. It then has the top body off a Model III-type 2 but with the final version improved rangefinder. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannielscom Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted October 7, 2018 Jerzy, thanks for your extensive write-up! so if I read this correctly, the upgrade to the Elmar was likely done before 1943, when Leitz abandoned the aperture scale with f16 as the smallest mark? And since the lens was also coated, it cannot have been upgraded before 1941? That would leave a very narrow time frame in which the upgrade was done, and during the war upgrades possibly were performed in very limited amounts, I presume? I am looking for anybody to contact to have the provenance of the camera (and my other very early Leica II) checked with Leitz. I have tried to contact mr. Lager through the rangefinderforum, but he never responded... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted October 8, 2018 Share #9 Posted October 8, 2018 yes, f16 was used for few years only. But the combination of markings on distance scale (1 1,1 1,2 1,3.....) with f16 narrows it even more. Distance scale with markings 1 1,1 1,25 1,4...) was used on earlier f16. Shortly after introducing distance scale markings as on your lens Leitz changed the stop to f22 Pls not that my statements above are based on fetaures applied to regular production, for repairs conversions old stock could have been used. And whenever any new feature has been introduced there was an overlap where new fetaures overlaped still with old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLG Posted July 28, 2023 Share #10 Posted July 28, 2023 A Leica I/III (1929/1933) conversion. It apparently went from London to the factory several times. Lens serial number dates from 1932. Flash sync on rear. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290185-leica-conversions-who-has-one/?do=findComment&comment=4823828'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted July 28, 2023 Share #11 Posted July 28, 2023 I have 2 conversions: a 1929 model A converted to model II (likely done before the III was introduced), and a 1936 IIIa converted to a IIIf (red dial - with new longer body but same serial number). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondo79 Posted July 29, 2023 Share #12 Posted July 29, 2023 Leica IIIc conversion to IIIf I throw my Leica into the ring. According to the serial number it is a IIIc from 1949. The contact numbers are black and not engraved on the body but attached with a small plate which was screwed on. The shutter speed dial has a red1/30 instead of a 1/25 like on a IIIf. Maybe someone of you knows what happened to my IIIc and what was rebuilt. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290185-leica-conversions-who-has-one/?do=findComment&comment=4824366'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 29, 2023 Share #13 Posted July 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, mondo79 said: Leica IIIc conversion to IIIf I throw my Leica into the ring. According to the serial number it is a IIIc from 1949. The contact numbers are black and not engraved on the body but attached with a small plate which was screwed on. The shutter speed dial has a red1/30 instead of a 1/25 like on a IIIf. Maybe someone of you knows what happened to my IIIc and what was rebuilt. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have a number of c to f Black Dial conversions, which facilitate the use of flash sync, which would have been added as part of the conversion . If the camera was a IIIc, like this one, then a plate with sync numbers was added (screwed on) like this. If it was a Ic then a new top was provided with the sync numbers engraved on it. A new shutter dial and wind knob with film reminder would also have been added. Hope this makes sense. I have some photos of collection items which illustrate this, but I can't lay my hands on them at the moment. I have a few conversions of I Model As to Standards as well. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted July 30, 2023 Share #14 Posted July 30, 2023 http://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/leica upgraded.html 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted July 30, 2023 Share #15 Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 12:16 AM, TomB_tx said: ...and a 1936 IIIa converted to a IIIf (red dial - with new longer body but same serial number). I wonder why that one was not just upgraded to a 'IIIa syn', keeping the original body? Does it still have original features like non-adjacent finder eypieces, or is it a IIIf in all but serial number? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted July 30, 2023 Share #16 Posted July 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Anbaric said: I wonder why that one was not just upgraded to a 'IIIa syn', keeping the original body? Does it still have original features like non-adjacent finder eypieces, or is it a IIIf in all but serial number? It's a completely new IIIf (red dial) body, shutter has the red-dial 25-1 slow speeds (IIIa was 20-1; IIIf BD was 30-1). There have been a few similar reports - possibly sent in for repair or upgrade when the old camera was in too poor shape. By keeping the old serial number it could be returned as a repair, possibly avoiding taxes as a new item. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 31, 2023 Share #17 Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, jc_braconi said: http://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/leica upgraded.html Hello Jean Claude, I noticed that in the very informative booklet (Thank you again.): There was no program shown for upgrading a IIIb camera. Do you know the reason for this? Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 31, 2023 Share #18 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, jc_braconi said: http://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/leica upgraded.html The last table of your post is interesting for me. My camera started - according to its number - as an If, in 1959 I got it as a IIf and during a repair in 1961 - a piece of film hid somewhere - it was promoted into a IIIf. Edited July 31, 2023 by jankap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studienkamera Posted July 31, 2023 Share #19 Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said: I noticed that in the very informative booklet (Thank you again.): There was no program shown for upgrading a IIIb camera. The link posted by JC does not work for me, but my 1954 booklet "Leica Umbau, Vergütung, Instandsetzung" (Liste Photo Nr. 8685) states that "Die Vollsynchronisierung der Leica III b ist zum Preis von 75,-- DM in Vorbereitung." Translated: There are plans to offer full synchronisation for the IIIb for 75 DM. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted July 31, 2023 Share #20 Posted July 31, 2023 I have shown this before. It is from the Summer 1935 price list so is before the 111b came out. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290185-leica-conversions-who-has-one/?do=findComment&comment=4825611'>More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.