wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 3, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) When did the pre-war introduced PLOOT reflex housing become the Visoflex I. Is it 1951? What are the differences between a PLOOT and an LTM Visoflex 1, apart from the different viewing devices? I have two Visoflex 1's, an LTM and M mount versions, plus both 45º and chimney Viewfinders in addition to an LTM Visoflex II. I sold both my Visoflex III's in M mount, when I sold off all my long focus Telyt lenses (280, 400, 560 and 800), other than the 200/f4.5 on the Viso 1. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here When did the PLOOT become the Visoflex 1 and differences?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted October 3, 2018 Share #2 Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) What are the differences between a PLOOT and an LTM Visoflex 1, apart from the different viewing devices?... Wilson Basically and quickly… PLOOT is a "cube with rounded corners", Viso I is a "cylinder with two cut out flat slices"... (*) Year of intro is indeed 1951. Good article on the PLOOT : http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/ploot.html (*) ...and both with another cylinder inserted onto… (to support the finders) Edited October 3, 2018 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 4, 2018 Share #3 Posted October 4, 2018 Just some minor differences. The finish was updated. The rotation for vertical photographs is different and slightly faster in use. The mirror raising mechanism was changed from the left side to the right side which doesn't matter if you use a double cable release. The OZXVO / 16493 pneumatic sports release, made from 1954, was enabled by this change from right to left. There was no IFLEX version of the PLOOT. It is interesting to note that 1951 also saw the introduction of the Carl Zeiss Jena Flektometer with versions for pre-war Zeiss Ikon Dresden Contax and for post-war Zeiss Ikon Stuttgart Contax. Notable on the Flektometer is the solid release arm that Leitz didn't adopt until 1959 with the Visoflex II. (The Endoscope Visoflex II may have been earlier than 1959.) While Leitz sold thousands of Visoflex I, Carl Zeiss only made 200 Flektometer. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted October 4, 2018 Here is one of my Visoflex 1's (the LTM one) on a 1937 IIIa with 2 speed MOOLY and a 200mm/f4.5 Telyt. This Visoflex 1 has the screen changing accessory from a clear screen to a ground glass. There had been a few homemade alterations to this, most of which I have managed to undo but it is also missing a few small screws and the nut on the location pin for the screen rotation is missing. I think the collimation of the focus screen needs fine adjustment. I have done it roughly on infinity. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3606379'>More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted October 4, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) The same idea with PLOOT, Leica III w/ 135 Hektor in short mount. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 4, 2018 by Ambro51 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3606398'>More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 4, 2018 Share #6 Posted October 4, 2018 Wilson, you have a Visoflex I that has been modified with an IFLEX focusing screen accessory. I believe Leitz offered this modification or at least supplied the parts to its repair facilities for the modification. A "genuine" IFLEX does not have strap eyelets, and there would not be a finder shoe on the right side. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted October 5, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) The IFLEX is a pain in the proverbial as you have to undo it to mount it on a MOOLY equipped Barnack. Of course, you then lose the screen register. I would be very happy to have it removed all together and revert to a regular screen and VF mount. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 5, 2018 Share #8 Posted October 5, 2018 IFLEX reflex housings are usually of higher value than regular Visoflex I. I guess it's just a situation of supply and demand with collectors. You should be able to trade down and make some money in the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted October 5, 2018 IFLEX reflex housings are usually of higher value than regular Visoflex I. I guess it's just a situation of supply and demand with collectors. You should be able to trade down and make some money in the process. Given that I paid a massive €39 for the whole thing, a profit might be possible. I would want to get it fettled with the missing limit screw on the VF mounting bayonet and the nut on the rotating screen holder replaced, before I passed it on to another owner. I would actually be perfectly happy to do a straight swap for a non-IFLEX LTM Viso 1, given that I want to use it on a MOOLY equipped IIIa. I have just also acquired a ZOOAN and a very late (1960) coated Hektor 135 as well, which is waiting back at my UK house (cost just £65). Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 6, 2018 Share #10 Posted October 6, 2018 Just for illustarting Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3607362'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 9, 2018 Share #11 Posted October 9, 2018 Here are my IFLEX ( rotating screen) model Viso I reflex boxes. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! All have strap lugs and accessory shoes but one. I guess you could say it is a" true" IFLEX. Some are M mount so I assume after 1954. I really wonder if Leitz in addition to offering the conversion of a viso I to an updated IFLEX, just began to sell IFLEX units from new with the strap lugs and accessory shoe? True IFLEX boxes seem to be very rare and many should have been ordered with microscope set ups, at a slightly reduced price. From a production standpoint it may have made sense just to standardize on the viso I box even when an IFLEX was ordered with a microscope. Maybe someone has insight. Here is the "true" IFLEX, with quite early serial number 7326. The latest PLOOT I have seen and I have it,is 7220. I believe the earliest Viso I boxes were the so called "black rim" models. For illustration, I show here a black rim number 8775 with a Viso I red box. The converted or late IFLEX units have usually a serial number on the rotating section. Here is a photo of a IFLEX with strap lugs and accessory shoe. Note from the photo above that the "true" IFLEX has the serial and the logo on the body, not the rotational part. Regular Viso I's had the serial on the upper ring. This ring was removed when the rotating portion was added. The Viso II, with and without interchangeable screens transitioned all PLOOT's and Viso I's to the new and shorter reflex box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! All have strap lugs and accessory shoes but one. I guess you could say it is a" true" IFLEX. Some are M mount so I assume after 1954. I really wonder if Leitz in addition to offering the conversion of a viso I to an updated IFLEX, just began to sell IFLEX units from new with the strap lugs and accessory shoe? True IFLEX boxes seem to be very rare and many should have been ordered with microscope set ups, at a slightly reduced price. From a production standpoint it may have made sense just to standardize on the viso I box even when an IFLEX was ordered with a microscope. Maybe someone has insight. Here is the "true" IFLEX, with quite early serial number 7326. The latest PLOOT I have seen and I have it,is 7220. I believe the earliest Viso I boxes were the so called "black rim" models. For illustration, I show here a black rim number 8775 with a Viso I red box. The converted or late IFLEX units have usually a serial number on the rotating section. Here is a photo of a IFLEX with strap lugs and accessory shoe. Note from the photo above that the "true" IFLEX has the serial and the logo on the body, not the rotational part. Regular Viso I's had the serial on the upper ring. This ring was removed when the rotating portion was added. The Viso II, with and without interchangeable screens transitioned all PLOOT's and Viso I's to the new and shorter reflex box. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3609150'>More sharing options...
david strachan Posted October 9, 2018 Share #12 Posted October 9, 2018 Love the name PLOOT! ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 9, 2018 Share #13 Posted October 9, 2018 PS: Most of the IFLEX I have seen have this small black screw-in tube at the top of the viewer. I assume to further exclude extraneous light for microscope or other low-light use. Was this tube ever available seperately, with a code? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3609163'>More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share #14 Posted October 9, 2018 Alan, those are all good questions. The assertion I made about "true" IFLEX is based on Laney's Leica Collector's Guide book, page 424. He says the IFLEX "had no accessory shoe or eyelets, although illustrations sometimes show these Items. Visoflex models with serial numbers above 6646 could be factory converted to IFLEX." To add to the mystery I have a Leitz IFLEX produced for Foca cameras. It is unquestionably a Leitz factory production because all the crackle paint and satin chrome match perfectly. The IFLEX bares the Foca trademark in addition to the usual Leitz trademark. This IFLEX for Foca reflex housing has the accessory shoe and eyelets. In a day or two I'll post a picture. For reference the thickness of the Foca screw mount body is 32mm in contrast to Leica's 28.8mm screw mount body thickness. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted October 14, 2018 Share #15 Posted October 14, 2018 What are the serial numbers for pre-war and post-war PLOOTs? What are the serial numbers for the post-war VISOFLEX 1...M and LTM? I can't seem to find a definitive list. Ciao, Sully Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 14, 2018 Share #16 Posted October 14, 2018 I have not seen anythinng definitive. My studies show: -PLOOT introduced in 1935 for the 200 Telyt, at serial number 1001. -The accessory shoe and new type release collar were introduced about Mar. 1938, at approximately serial number 2300. -The removable viewer was introduced very near to serial 3600. -By mid 1945, I estimate the serial at 4250. -The highest PLOOT serial I have recorded is 7270. -By 1951 the visoflex I in screw mount was replacing the PLOOT. The earliest may have had a black paint rim at the top. Viso 1 production far exceeded PLOOT. -M mount visoflex 1 bodies available for the new M camera arrount 1954. Other PLOOT features, such as curved vs. flat glass at the top of the mirror box can be discussed. Leitz started with the flat glass, transitioned to curved, and the late production is again flat. Effect on the image is unknown to me. In a previous post, I showed the 70+ PLOOT's I have collected. I need them for my 43 200 Telyts and 34 early model 400 Telyts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted January 13, 2023 Share #17 Posted January 13, 2023 Continuing with the visoflex saga. Here is a very early model, with black blank rim and the serial 6650 on the side of the base. ASFAIK, the black rim viso's with the serial still on the side like the PLOOT's, rather than on the top rim are the earliest models. As PLOOT serials extend up to at least 7270, and with many black rim viso I's starting near 6550, I think we can assume the serials overlaped for a time, and the viso serials were a continuation from the ploot serials and not a new start. Has anyone seen a viso I serial lower than 6650? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=4639660'>More sharing options...
sandro Posted January 13, 2023 Share #18 Posted January 13, 2023 Before Leitz introduced the Visoflex I the so-called Reproflex (shown in the photo by Andreas Marx at Nofoflex) was produced in 1948/49 by Karl Müller, soon followed by the Novoflex (hence the name of the company) in 1950. The Reproflex looked a lot like the PLOOT. Lex Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290151-when-did-the-ploot-become-the-visoflex-1-and-differences/?do=findComment&comment=4639693'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted January 13, 2023 Share #19 Posted January 13, 2023 Your Reproflex should have a serial number on the bottom, mine is 1077. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 13, 2023 Share #20 Posted January 13, 2023 Not all Reproflex have serial numbers. Mine does not have a number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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