M10 conversation, MM1,MM2 or (wait for) MM3

[xiaoheli]

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I have an M10 and kept an M9 for the unique CCD color. I recently acquired an APO Summicron 50mm while leaning more toward B&W photos. Any suggestions if I should add a MM1 for it's charactor and sharing infurstructure w/ M9 or MM2 for it's live view (I dislike the 240 body design though and felt it was half way product in Leica CMOS learning curve) or simply continue to convert M10 until MM3 - M10 monochrom come (if it comes)? I have read all the techical comparisons of MM1 vs MM2 but little on the justification of either if you already have an M10. Thanks

[jaapv]

The only justification to buy an MM camera is whether you want to practice pure B&W photography. In that case it is an unique tool and highly recommended. If so, I think the MM1  <insert> replaced sensor caution </insert> gives the most striking results. The MM2 is preferable if you want to make use of its extra features.

 

If one only buys it to add to a collection of M cameras it will gather dust in a drawer.

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[otto.f]

Although there will follow responses here of people who will promote the M246, I totally agree with jaapv. I am not at all convinced that the MM3 will have much surplusvalue above the M10, especially in the sense of value for money compared to a good MM1 occasion.

[Mr Fjeld]

It's a question only you can know the anser to.

 

I happen to own the"half way product" you mention, and I love using it. Some prefer the MM1 and its "gritty" character while others prefer the clarity the M246 offers - especially in large prints. I print 70 X 50 cm pictures and with the APO 50 it's pure magic.

 

But for me the only reason to buy a monochrome camera would be the change of mindset it offers when looking for black and white contrasts, light and dark parts of a scene, grey tones etc.

 

If I didn't have a clear idea about why I wanted it I'd just stick to the M10 which offers terrific black and white conversions anyway.

 

[otto.f]

 

If I didn't have a clear idea about why I wanted it I'd just stick to the M10 which offers terrific black and white conversions anyway.

With the additional advantage of very detailed filters in postprocessing

[a.noctilux]

For me, the most important when I use Monochrom is

"Black and White mindset"

 

That was something I 've learned to know and practice.

 

When I use "color M" like M10 I mainly have "Color mindset" and while taking picture I do have some scenes that I think better rendering in b&w,

later when those frames are converted to b&w, I'm not very satisfied, I don't know why.

 

And example of "b&w direct" different from "b&w converted from color file" :

 - using color filter to alter the "color rendering of b&w" picture

- when on Monochrom, I begin to master "color filter" with physical color filters (orange, red, green, etc.)

- when converted with in software color "filters", I'm lost with those multiple possibilities the software offered, so I have to "learn more"

- for me the two types of mindsets are not really interchangeable

 

With Monochrom, when I learned how to use color filter, in situation, I can check on the LCD how was the rendering with that particular filter.

If need another filter (color), I swapped in the field and not later in software.

 

That just me and my practice .

Edited September 30, 2018 by a.noctilux

[Jeff S]

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If you aren’t sure about having a Monochrom, you probably don’t need one. But if uncertain, a mint MM (with new sensor) can be found for about 40-45% of the cost of the M246 (or likely for a still imaginary M10M), with minimal loss on resale.

 

I agree with the mindset comments. And with the practical advantages of using color channels in PP with the M10.

 

Either way, none of the options will ensure better pics or prints; that’s still up to the user. I enjoy my MM and M10, but each one is perfectly capable of producing fine, or mediocre, results.

 

Jeff

[Linford]

Great comments above and very accurate. Having owned both the MM1 and MM2, I have to agree with JAAPV. I would add that the novelty of the monochrome diminishes over time and they do tend to collect dust. I purchased my M246 when it was released in'14 and finally sold it just last month. I enjoyed it a great deal over the years. However, the M10 files convert so well for me to the point I feel it is redundant. If I had held onto my (M9) Monochrome, I suspect I would select to keep it. Reason? The (M9) Monochrom renders completely differently--to my eye--than the M246 and certainly the M10. To me the blacks seemed to be blacker and whites seemed to be white. The images did seem a little more "contrasty" and/or film-like. That makes it more interesting to me. I would probably admit I should have kept that one after all. I will be interested to see if there is an MM3 or M10 Monochrom in our future. My dream camera would be an M10 M-D Monochrom. I'll not hold my breath for that one! Cheers--lt

Edited October 1, 2018 by Linford

[MarkP]

I've upgraded my colour M digital cameras from M9 to M240 to M10 and been very happy wiht each move.

 

However, I still have my Monochrom v1 with no plan to upgrade. The files are still breathtaking. I don't care what anyone says about the M10s resolution or it's B&W conversions, I still prefer the  Monochrome v1's tonal quality, 'filmic' noise, and resolution. Don't know what I'll do when the M10 Monochrom comes out - there is some advantage to standardising batteries, chargers, etc. I suspect I'll keep the V1.

[ru2far2c]

I've been following a few of MM threads here and have been weighting the difference between the MM1 and 246. If I can find a MM1 in good condition (with proof of replaced sensor from 52 to 53) I'll more than likely pick it up. I've converted 240 files to B&W and they don't seem to be same feel as MM1 files to me anyway. I also miss the M8 and M9 I had at one time. Besides I could take a nice trip with the money saved buying a MM1!

Edited October 1, 2018 by ru2far2c

[Jeff S]

If I can find a MM1 in good condition (with proof of replaced sensor from 52 to 53) I'll more than likely pick it up.

Good dealers (Leica Miami, for example) will not sell an MM unless it has the most current sensor (and will send it to Wetzlar first if not). Buy with warranty and peace of mind.

 

Jeff

[MarkP]

Leica Beverly Hills has one. Popped in at the end of my US holiday last week.

Edited October 1, 2018 by MarkP

[jmr237]

Leica Store Miami has them from time to time. Just check the website often as they tend to sell quickly. I bought my MM v1 with a replaced sensor and low shutter count from them earlier this year.

[ru2far2c]

It will be a little while before I can make a trip to the states. Have been looking at Leica stores in the US plus a few dealer I trust for selling used Leica equipment. Popflash had a new MM1 in a box with new sensor and warranty recently and as mentioned above Miami had several in stock. I’ll keep looking especially closer to when I can travel there.

 

Need to check with customs here about having used gear sent here. I know having new gear sent here gets taxed by 35-40%. It is cheaper to fly to Miami or New York at point for purchaseing gear.

[Jeff S]

No M10M for a while at least, according to this interview....

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-m-system/

 

Jeff

[ru2far2c]

No M10M for a while at least, according to this interview....

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-m-system/

 

Jeff

This should help some of us make up our mind if we are playing the waiting game for a new monochrome coming to market from Leica. Personally I'm more than likely going to still for the first MM or a 246.

[xiaoheli]

No M10M for a while at least, according to this interview....

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-m-system/

 

Jeff

Yes he has to say that otherwise no one will buy what is off the shelf... In the end it is commercial decision for Leica how to maximize revenue with limited R&D to milk the classical line while they need to grow CL, SL and S line to the critical mass relevant for the future which is way tougher battle. The privilege of Leica being Leica is, whenever they introduce M10M many will jump including myself, not due to rational technical specs.. those who care of techspec are long parted from Leica customer base. So they can wait out and use sales data to make decision. PS, I inquired one of their booth staff in Photokina 2018 on M10M and answer I got was a standard training sentence - "I can not comment"... the type of response I used to get from Apple with only difference being apple sells innovation (used to) and Lecia sells status quo as luxury brand. Would have hoped for more human interaction with a luxury brand at least getting a decision rationale as in the interview ..naja...Leica being Leica ... Edited October 6, 2018 by xiaoheli

[ru2far2c]

The first M9M was introduced in May of 2012 the M246 was introduced in April 2015. So maybe there is a chance with Photokina being next May again they will introduce a M10M. Maybe.... 

 

As you said xiaoheli that need to grow other areas plus the new alliance that they have curated further with Sigma and Panasonic. 

[a.noctilux]

I dare to think that this time because of "if it's same sensor of 24M" launching Monochrom (M10 base) may not be commercially viable.

To be more positive, for sure Monochrom III will be waiting after M11.

 

While waiting, let's use what we have now  .

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[xiaoheli]

I dare to think that this time because of "if it's same sensor of 24M" launching Monochrom (M10 base) may not be commercially viable.

To be more positive, for sure Monochrom III will be waiting after M11.

 

While waiting, let's use what we have now .

agree. Just got a mint 246 as my first Monochrom and yes the real stuff feels better than Santa's wishlist...