Adobe DNG Profile Editor

[MikeMyers]

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I downloaded and installed Adobe DNG Profile Editor, and installed it on two macOS machines running High Sierra.  Both have a problem with the Color Matrices function not working.

 

I have opened a file from my M8.2, and most other functions work.  

 

I suspect it has a problem with High Sierra, but I have no way to test it on older OS computers.

 

 

Anybody here have the app?  

It's available for both Windows and Mac.

I guess one option is to test it on my old Windows computer.....

 

The goal is to create a new profile for my Lightroom editing, with the red cast removed.

[zeitz]

Mike, I am a firm believer in building one's own profiles.  The regular M8 profile was bad for me; the regular M9 profile was unusable for me.  Same problem you are having - red.  The problem was with both Capture One and Lightroom, the versions of the software that came with the cameras.  I stopped using Capture One.  Profile Editor immediately and permanently solved by problem with Lightroom.  I made my profiles years ago and still use them unchanged to this day.

 

I wish I could help with Profile Editor and High Sierra.  It's unusual that Adobe products don't work with macOS.  They do the best job of testing during the beta phase.  You might do better posing the question on Adobe's site or contacting Adobe support.

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[zeitz]

I downloaded Profile Editor to give it a try on High Sierra.  I couldn't get Color Matrices to work either.  But the function that is really useful, and that I recommend, is the Color Checker Chart profile creator.  You do need a Monaco Color Checker card.  Once you have made a profile, you can use it just like any other profile in Lightroom.  It can be your default profile.  At that point you don't need Profile Editor anymore.  (You can make a profile for each camera / lens combination just as easily.)

 

For accurate color, all of your digital devices need to be profiler or calibrated.  The camera, lens, monitor, scanner (if any) and printer / paper combo all need to be color managed with profiles or calibrations.  Cameras now are so good with their manufacturer supplied profiles, perhaps Profile Editor is not used much anymore.

[MikeMyers]

Apparently this is Adobe's suggestion.  I did the download, but haven't yet gotten to try any of this out.

 

====================================================

Adobe DNG Profile Editor

created by Jao vdL in Lightroom Classic CC — The desktop-focused app - View the full discussion

They changed the way we are supposed to make profiles now. Go to Digital Negative (DNG), Adobe DNG Converter | Adobe Photoshop CC and download the profiles SDK. It will contain instructions on how to generate profiles that shift white balance, change saturation, etc. Basically it will generate a creative profile in xmp format that you can call up in Lightroom Classic, Camera Raw and Lightroom CC.

====================================================

 

Two things are needed, as I see it.

 

First, I need to get rid of the red cast over the whole image.  That is why I am trying to create a new profile.

 

Second, I need to swap the red and blue channels, which in the past required Photoshop.  Someone posted a Lightroom tool to do this, which I downloaded.  It seems to work fine, but when I start with the original red cast, I end up with just as bad a blue cast.  Before I get much further, I need to create a profile to do this.

 

You wrote "For accurate color, all of your digital devices need to be profiler or calibrated.  The camera, lens, monitor, scanner (if any) and printer / paper combo all need to be color managed with profiles or calibrations.  Cameras now are so good with their manufacturer supplied profiles, perhaps Profile Editor is not used much anymore."   I have so many questions - starting with how do I even know which specific profile is being used, whether it is from Leica, and whether it is up to date.    Or, after reading what you wrote, how do I create a profile.

 

​I'm assuming I take a photo with my M8.2 using the 35 Summilux, edit it in Lightroom as best I can, and somehow save that image, and use it to create a profile.....    I've got a lot to learn.

 

Gee, if it was't for that M8, none of this would be happening.  My Nikon DSLR cameras were such a pain for infrared, I gave up on them long ago.  The M8 makes it so easy though!  Focus is easy to control, and the built in meter seems to work perfectly.  Getting nice results in black & white is reasonably easy to do, but I'm still stuck with the red issue before I can move on for color.

 

 

 

 

[MikeMyers]

.......the function that is really useful, and that I recommend, is the Color Checker Chart profile creator.  You do need a Monaco Color Checker card.  Once you have made a profile, you can use it just like any other profile in Lightroom.  It can be your default profile.  At that point you don't need Profile Editor anymore.  (You can make a profile for each camera / lens combination just as easily.)........

 

Do you have a link to a page with an explanation of what this is, what it does, and how to use it? 

 

Can I "fake it" somehow, to get rid of most of the red?  ....and where can one buy a "Monaco Color Checker card" ?

[mich]

Do you have a link to a page with an explanation of what this is, what it does, and how to use it? 

 

Can I "fake it" somehow, to get rid of most of the red?  ....and where can one buy a "Monaco Color Checker card" ?

Try this short video on youtube, very simple procedure

 

 

 

or this one

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by mich

[david strachan]

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I like the X-Right Colorchecker too.

It's not expensive and the profiles made automatically go into Lightroom.

It's a very easy process.

 

Have made M8 profiles too...without the IR/UV filter...helps to get the greens back and reduce the olive and yellow colours (however i still use the filters on my M8, very much most of the time).

 

Can recommend..

[MikeMyers]

I've watched both videos.  

 

As I understand what I saw, by taking a photo of the chart, then using the software, etc., and following the instructions, it will create a file for my M8 that can then be used to edit any number of photos taken with my M8 (with the same lens and similar settings) to modify the images to show more accurate colors.    I can buy one tomorrow from B&H:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651253-REG/X_Rite_MSCCPP_ColorChecker_Passport.html     ...for $74.

 

First question, do the images created with this device look "better" than images viewed with the Adobe (or Camera) profile?

 

 

.....but more importantly, I can't think of any way that this will get rid of the red cast from shooting the M8 for infrared.  Have you done this?  Did it work?

 

Another interesting thing I noticed.  All my infrared images from my M8.2 have this "nasty" looking red tint.  I checked, and this was while the profile was set to "Adobe".  Changing it to "Camera" made a huge difference - the off-red tint was replaced by a bright, colorful red.  Huge difference.  .......and when I swapped the red and blue channels, I got a brilliant and colorful blue tint.  I'm likely to buy this device anyway, but I think I need a way to turn down the red saturation, by creating a new profile, as the color correction tools in Lightroom aren't strong enough.

[mich]

 

 

First question, do the images created with this device look "better" than images viewed with the Adobe (or Camera) profile?

 

 

.....but more importantly, I can't think of any way that this will get rid of the red cast from shooting the M8 for infrared.  Have you done this?  Did it work?

 

Another interesting thing I noticed.  All my infrared images from my M8.2 have this "nasty" looking red tint.  I checked, and this was while the profile was set to "Adobe".  Changing it to "Camera" made a huge difference - the off-red tint was replaced by a bright, colorful red.  Huge difference.  .......and when I swapped the red and blue channels, I got a brilliant and colorful blue tint.  I'm likely to buy this device anyway, but I think I need a way to turn down the red saturation, by creating a new profile, as the color correction tools in Lightroom aren't strong enough.

Define 'better'

 

That is up to your personal taste. What I can say is, that the colors are adjusted to the natural colors of your objects. You have of course every freedom to tweak the colors again to your own liking.

 

I can't comment on IR images, as I have never tried it.

Edited September 29, 2018 by mich

[MikeMyers]

Sorry, I meant to ask if the colors are more "accurate".  From watching the video, apparently they are.  

 

I'm curious if this will correct the yellowish-green for grass that the M8 is known for, an the purplish tints too.

 

From what I've seen in the video, there's a good chance it will do that.

[MikeMyers]

I will order the "X-Rite Colorchecker" on Monday from B&H.

 

Meanwhile, after searching around on the internet some more, I found a video that suggested installing GIMP on my computer.  I remember that from long ago, especially how I never really felt comfortable using it.  I downloaded the latest version, but when I tried to open a DNG image, it needed a "Raw Loader".  See attachment.

 

 

I tried to install the first one "darktable" but the download page looked very strange on my Mac.

I am now trying to install the second one, "RawTherapee".

 

 

Here's what GIMP is supposed to be able to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iehOYBYgXE

 

....and one of the videos on RawTherapee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOogn08CWeQ

 

...and a better how to use video for Raw Therapee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUv02QFMxs

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Edited September 30, 2018 by MikeMyers

[zeitz]

Mike, if you don't calibrate your monitor, all your work will be for naught.  Unfortunately wide gamut monitors that are made for accurate graphics are expensive.  I use an Ezio Color Edge CX271 that has a built-in profile adjustment tool that is used every 200 hours of monitor on-time.  NEC, Dell and others make graphics monitors.  You can buy separate calibration tools that work well, but the monitor has to be able to support a very high percent of Adobe RGB.  I believe the X-Rite Monaco people make calibration devices.

 

The Color Passport and Monaco Color Card are slightly different products.  I bought my color card at my local camera store.  With the Monaco Color Card, you take a picture of it under the right lighting conditions.  You open it from the Adobe DNG Profile Creator and select the last tab.  You move dots to each of the four corners, and the software creates the profile because it knows the exact color that each square is supposed to be.  This is as accurate a profile as you can get.  The created profile is moved to the right spot under Libraries.  As I said in a previous reply, my experience here is old and everything may have changed with Adobe.  So Adobe's current advice may be much more useful than my old experience.  I believe the Passport has its own software; I have never used the device.

 

The Leica M9 has 7 settings (profiles) under Color Saturation.  My Nikon D5 also has 7 profiles (but different) to pick from under Photo Shooting Menu / Set Picture Control.  My old D3x was quite different with 3 unnamed color modes plus monochrome.  

 

I have to admit I can no longer find profiles in Camera Raw or Lightroom Develop module.  There are Settings, but they don't correspond to the camera profiles.  There is a selection under Photoshop Preferences / Caw Raw to make defaults specific to a camera serial number.

 

I hope others more current on profiling cameras will weigh in to this discussion.

 

I need to try DarkTable.

[MikeMyers]

Mike, if you don't calibrate your monitor, all your work will be for naught......

Every time I think I'm moving forward, I learn new things which means I need to back up before I can continue.  I incorrectly thought that one of the reasons Apple computers are so expensive, is because their screens are pre-calibrated.  

 

In searching for what to do, I found this link, direct from Apple:

     https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25259?locale=en_US

 

Essentially, go to SYSTEM PREFERENCES, select DISPLAY, and then click on COLOR, at which point I will run the APPLE DISPLAY CALIBRATOR ASSISTANT.    I want to read more about this before I start, but what you said is true - before doing much more, other than learning, I need to calibrate my display.   ....which may or may not make a visible change in my display.  I've also got a high tech ASUS 27" display to also calibrate.

[MikeMyers]

........The Color Passport and Monaco Color Card are slightly different products.  I bought my color card at my local camera store.  With the Monaco Color Card, you take a picture of it under the right lighting conditions.  You open it from the Adobe DNG Profile Creator and select the last tab.  You move dots to each of the four corners, and the software creates the profile because it knows the exact color that each square is supposed to be.  This is as accurate a profile as you can get.  The created profile is moved to the right spot under Libraries.  As I said in a previous reply, my experience here is old and everything may have changed with Adobe.  So Adobe's current advice may be much more useful than my old experience.  I believe the Passport has its own software; I have never used the device.......

One more potentially useful (and long) video to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5xSdin2GM

 

I'll read up on more comments here, before calling B&H to order anything.

Edited September 30, 2018 by MikeMyers

[jaapv]

Every time I think I'm moving forward, I learn new things which means I need to back up before I can continue.  I incorrectly thought that one of the reasons Apple computers are so expensive, is because their screens are pre-calibrated.  

 

In searching for what to do, I found this link, direct from Apple:

     https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25259?locale=en_US

 

Essentially, go to SYSTEM PREFERENCES, select DISPLAY, and then click on COLOR, at which point I will run the APPLE DISPLAY CALIBRATOR ASSISTANT.    I want to read more about this before I start, but what you said is true - before doing much more, other than learning, I need to calibrate my display.   ....which may or may not make a visible change in my display.  I've also got a high tech ASUS 27" display to also calibrate.

The Apple display calibrator assistant is rather  (euphemism for totally )  useless . Get a decent calibrating system, like the Xrite one. The ColorMunki will keep your screen calibrated when ambient light changes.

ALL displays need calibrating using a colorimeter. The Apple displays are certainly not the high end of the market for photo editing; they are far too bright and poppy. Calibrating will tame them.

For the best results you need to look to Eizo, NEC and BenQ.

[MikeMyers]

When I helped others with this in the past, we ended up selecting Spyder.

 

There are three choices, Express, Pro, Elite - and Studio.

Prices at B&H for the first three are $130, $130, and $200.

(https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/datacolor/Ntt/spyder5/0 )

 

Based on the comparison chart, https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyder5-family/ , I think the "pro" is the better choice for me.

 

I'm also thinking that if one of my photos looks "far too bright and poppy" to me, as you put it, I would tone it down, meaning that when people view it on a calibrated monitor, it will look dull.  And if I like the "too bright and poppy" effect, and do it after calibrating my screen, others will see the image the same way I do.  

 

.........which also leaves me agreeing with the suggestions up above, that calibrating the camera image shouldn't be done until after calibrating the display.

 

=================================================================================

 

Back to one of my original concerns.  If I continue to shoot with my M8.2, which has some "unusual" ways of showing color, will using the systems we've been talking about compensate for the M8's "issues", and adjust the colors to look the way people usually expect them to look?  I can't see why it wouldn't.......      

[jaapv]

I cannot see why it would. The only thing these systems do is to render the colours as accurately as possible If the colours are wrong, they will render the wrongness as accurately as possible.