SL best photo camera at Photokina

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Just spent two days at Photokina and amidst all exciting announcements of new full frame cameras, I walk away with the impression that 3 years after its introduction the SL is still the best photo camera available.

 

1. Handling. As much as mirrorless systems can be smaller, their lenses apparently not. Just when we thought that the 24-90 was big, it is quite average compared to the pro lenses of Canon or Sony. The well regarded Art lenses of Sigma are no small units either. The SL handles such big glass much better than the rather small and light EOS R or Z7. No question that CaNikon will develop pro cameras that can handle these lenses at some time, but not there yet. At this point Panasonic may have the best cards of the competition with their bigger S1 cameras.

 

2. Viewfinder. At launch the eye-res was best in market and having looked through most of the competition, it still is.

 

3. User Interface. With all technical advances, companies struggle getting an interface that allows photographers to make a photo. On one of the cameras I counted 23 buttons. Wherever you hold it, you will press some accidentally. And the info in the viewfinder is overwhelming at best. The clean and unobtrusive ‘settings-bars’ of the SL (and across the Leica-universe), are never in the way or distractive, but provide always the info you need when you need it.

 

4. Image quality. The new summicrons are true masterpieces and stand out above anything else. ‘Leica-look’ , although evolved, is actual as ever. Similar by the way for the 24-90, 16-35 etc. The sensor still produces magnificent images. True, 24 MP is on the low end in today’s world, but likely more than sufficient in >95% of the cases.

 

5. L-mount system. The announcement of the L-Mount alliance is in my view nothing but good news for us as Leica users. It will broaden the options massively. Harmonizing standards is a sign of a maturing industry. Anything one does to prevent a customer to step out of a system is as much a reason not to step in it in the first place. And the L-Mount seems very versatile, supporting both aps-C and full-frame format. The mixing and matching between the TL/CL and the SL system is a very nice asset. The SL-90mm summicron makes a nice 135mm option for a TL/CL, and I’ve seen people getting nice results with the TL-60 macro or TL-35 1.4 on their SL.

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Sorry, pressed the Post button too early...

 

Of course, nothing is perfect. And I am sure an SL2 will make up for some of today’s shortcomings (on/off option for LENR, Leica?).

 

Where the SL clearly lags behind is in video. No IBIS, poor continuous focus etc. and for specific use cases (sports comes to mind), there are better options out there. The L-Mount alliance might be able to close the video gap. For example mixing it with a Panasonic that is more video centric.

Fuji is bringing some very nice products with the x-T3 (now that is fast autofocus!) and their medium format offerings. But as a general purpose camera as part of a larger system, the SL has overall more to offer

 

Hopefully Leica will continue the path on harmonizing standards, possibly with Panasonic. Interfaces for flash (Profoto?), tethered shooting in Capture One, etc. For any ‘accessories’ manufacturer it would be much easier to justify a Panasonic interface than a Leica interface.

 

It is with surprise I see comments made on whether the SL is dead. To me the system is alive and kicking and I look forward to the next iteration. Yes, it would be nice if the roadmap of lenses would be a bit more exciting (macro, converter, long Tele, etc), but there is a lot already.

 

So Leica, I am looking forward to the SL2. But dont rush, and make the decisions similar to what got us the SL. In the meantime we have a great photo camera to shoot with.

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[Robert E]

Not being able to attend Photokina, I for one appreciate your observations and hands on experiences with the products available there. Your conclusions help solidify my decision to buy the SL and keep it, despite the size of the 24-90.

Thanks so much for sharing

[hofo100]

Just spent two days at Photokina and amidst all exciting announcements of new full frame cameras, I walk away with the impression that 3 years after its introduction the SL is still the best photo camera available.

 

1. Handling. As much as mirrorless systems can be smaller, their lenses apparently not. Just when we thought that the 24-90 was big, it is quite average compared to the pro lenses of Canon or Sony. The well regarded Art lenses of Sigma are no small units either. The SL handles such big glass much better than the rather small and light EOS R or Z7. No question that CaNikon will develop pro cameras that can handle these lenses at some time, but not there yet. At this point Panasonic may have the best cards of the competition with their bigger S1 cameras.

 

2. Viewfinder. At launch the eye-res was best in market and having looked through most of the competition, it still is.

 

3. User Interface. With all technical advances, companies struggle getting an interface that allows photographers to make a photo. On one of the cameras I counted 23 buttons. Wherever you hold it, you will press some accidentally. And the info in the viewfinder is overwhelming at best. The clean and unobtrusive ‘settings-bars’ of the SL (and across the Leica-universe), are never in the way or distractive, but provide always the info you need when you need it.

 

 

 

Same here, walked over Photokina yesterday starting with mixed feelings if the massive entering of Canikon into the mirrorless world would put the SL in the "outdated" section. Completely relaxed when leaving. 

 

Couldn't agree more with your findings 1-3. Did not bring my camera but after been at the Nikon booth and looking through their new DSLMs viewfinders walked immediately over to Leica (same hall) to confirm my impression - the 3 year old Leica viewfinder is still state of the art. Also, the UI as you said - completely different than such "knob-carriers" not showing any design development.

 

I cannot comment on image quality, and I guess that also the announced CanNikon pro-lenses will deliver very good quality, but I cannot imagine they will bypass the SL with native SL lenses.

 

Must admit that I do not care about video, where the SL might have some room for improvement.

 

To conclude (my view...) - the real step change that Leica made with the SL can only be assessed these days when one has to acknowledge that the CanNikon giants have not been able to bypass with 3 more years lead time. And now, Leica please, work hard to keep the distance with a SL2 on the horizon.

 

Regards, Holger

[wildlightphoto]

4. Image quality. The new summicrons are true masterpieces and stand out above anything else. ‘Leica-look’ , although evolved, is actual as ever. Similar by the way for the 24-90, 16-35 etc. The sensor still produces magnificent images. True, 24 MP is on the low end in today’s world, but likely more than sufficient in >95% of the cases.

 

 

If you want to see what the new Summicrons can do put a higher MP sensor behind them.  My experience with the 90-280 APO was that 24MP is not nearly enough to avoid excessive aliasing.

[AlanJW]

If you want to see what the new Summicrons can do put a higher MP sensor behind them.  My experience with the 90-280 APO was that 24MP is not nearly enough to avoid excessive aliasing.

I am hoping for a higher MP sensor, perhaps 48?   That would give 20 mp also for APS/C.

[ramarren]

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The SL is a masterful design, for sure. I sold mine because it is now much more camera than I need, the CL suffices nicely for what I was using the SL for at the end. I've looked briefly at the Nikons and don't find much there to sway my conviction that the SL remains the top of the heap.

 

Video is very low on my list of priorities, especially video with autofocus. I'd never seen any problem with moire but then I know Doug's feathered subject matter is much more sensitive to that than anything I've been shooting. Being able to defeat LENR is probably the biggest improvement to the SL that would make sense for me.

[jrp]

The Sl is in many respects ahead of the curve, but it is also behind in some. The sensor is good to only ISO 6400 really and the flash system / support needs strengthening.  I'm also not completely convinced by the colour rendition.  There still seems to be a bit of a green / blue bias to some pics (and yes I have both Adpbe's and my own hand rolled profiles). The new white balance in recent firmware may have helped a bit, but the "look" could still be improved.

[Chaemono]

If you want to see what the new Summicrons can do put a higher MP sensor behind them. My experience with the 90-280 APO was that 24MP is not nearly enough to avoid excessive aliasing.

Just curious, since you are also a well respected critic of Leica cameras on this forum, how do you feel about the S1R? Shouldn’t this be the perfect body for your needs and you are now offered an alternative that doesn’t require you to pay through your nose?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The Sl is in many respects ahead of the curve, but it is also behind in some. The sensor is good to only ISO 6400 really and the flash system / support needs strengthening.  I'm also not completely convinced by the colour rendition.  There still seems to be a bit of a green / blue bias to some pics (and yes I have both Adpbe's and my own hand rolled profiles). The new white balance in recent firmware may have helped a bit, but the "look" could still be improved.

 

Interestingly, it's that colour bias that I find attractive. I like the look of the SL files. My only worry with a "better" high resolution sensor is that they lose that. Different strokes.

 

I still see nothing that makes me want to change from my SL. The S1R will give me the high res files I want, if the SL2 doesn't have optional LENR. My current SL's will keep serving me well into the future. I'd prefer the Leica body because of the interface, menus and build quality. The S1 will almost certainly sort out the video side of things.

 

I agree there is a case for improvement to the flash system. Maybe now there is a bigger system companies like Godox will consider new transmitters. If not the S1R will be using the supported m43 protocols, so we will be covered. Personally I already have what I need with a simple manual trigger and wireless manual controls.

 

Other things apart from the mentioned. The sublime SL shutter sound. The elegant weather sealed battery system. Inbuilt 30 minute exposures without needing bulb.

 

For the sports shooters the A9 is still the mirrorless system to beat. I expect to start seeing a lot of Sony on sidelines around the world. I rarely need to shoot sports.

 

With the new offerings, the only thing missing would be the ability for me to use my S lenses on the S1R. Maybe it'll work?

 

Gordon

[Jon Warwick]

If you want to see what the new Summicrons can do put a higher MP sensor behind them. My experience with the 90-280 APO was that 24MP is not nearly enough to avoid excessive aliasing.

I agree, and personally think 24mp is very much compromising the SL Summicrons. I hope that will change with the S1R (and hopefully SL2).

 

As an aside, I'm most curious though to see what Sigma achieves with its Foveon sensor, especially when paired with Leica SL lenses .....the Foveon sensor on existing Sigmas like the DP Merrills naturally avoids a lot of the bayer filter problems (eg, a lot less "blur" on Foveon, such that acuity is fantastic; no aliasing; and fine details and the overall image simply look more "natural" in how they're cleanly resolved and with fewer digital aberrations compared to what i get off a Bayer sensor, IMHO).

 

What i personally see from Foveon sensors is kind of reminiscent, in my view, of the benefits we enjoy from the Monochrom camera in terms of punching above its megapixel weight for resolution / acuity / less blur / tonal depth. Funnily enough, i find that images off Foveon sensors make really good B&W conversions (perhaps given the sensor's high tonal depth), which i much prefer too over Bayer sensor conversions into B&W.

 

For things like detail- and tonal-rich scenes like landscapes (where camera speed and high-ISO performance is also less important), I'm hoping that a Foveon sensor + SL lenses could potentially be a superb combo.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Jon Warwick

[PeterGA]

Fantastic camera really - will be interesting to see what Panasonic comes up with in L mount - because Leica will then have a relevant benchmark to beat!

[MarkP]

I'm more interested to see whether Sigma releases a high MP Foveon sensor. I'd want a higher MP version of my SL (or equivalent) for landscapes. 

[helged]

I'm more interested to see whether Sigma releases a high MP Foveon sensor. I'd want a higher MP version of my SL (or equivalent) for landscapes. 

 

 

The good thing is that we can expect three FF, high(er)-res L-mount bodies in 2019. The panasonic version has been shown, apparently with the exterior settled, the Sigma version has been promised and the Leica version will be less 'brutal' than the current version (according to Dr. Kaufmann). It will be interesting to see which body will be launched first... 

[MarkP]

 

 

The good thing is that we can expect three FF, high(er)-res L-mount bodies in 2019. The panasonic version has been shown, apparently with the exterior settled, the Sigma version has been promised and the Leica version will be less 'brutal' than the current version (according to Dr. Kaufmann). It will be interesting to see which body will be launched first... 

 

And likely three different price-points...

[jonoslack]

Thank you MWC - great post and my feelings exactly

Of course, the sensor in the SL is a bit out of date now, but that should be fixed with the SL2 (which I would suspect will use the same sensor as Panasonic, perhaps with mods for M lenses). I quite agree about the new summicrons which really are things of beauty and wonder.

 

Doug - I think you're right about the aliasing with 24mp, so everything isn't necessarily rosy in the garden right now - but the future looks very bright to me with the news about IBIS and more megapixels.

 

best

[hexx]

I agree, and personally think 24mp is very much compromising the SL Summicrons. I hope that will change with the S1R (and hopefully SL2).

As an aside, I'm most curious though to see what Sigma achieves with its Foveon sensor, especially when paired with Leica SL lenses .....the Foveon sensor on existing Sigmas like the DP Merrills naturally avoids a lot of the bayer filter problems (eg, a lot less "blur" on Foveon, such that acuity is fantastic; no aliasing; and fine details and the overall image simply look more "natural" in how they're cleanly resolved and with fewer digital aberrations compared to what i get off a Bayer sensor, IMHO).

What i personally see from Foveon sensors is kind of reminiscent, in my view, of the benefits we enjoy from the Monochrom camera in terms of punching above its megapixel weight for resolution / acuity / less blur / tonal depth. Funnily enough, i find that images off Foveon sensors make really good B&W conversions (perhaps given the sensor's high tonal depth), which i much prefer too over Bayer sensor conversions into B&W.

For things like detail- and tonal-rich scenes like landscapes (where camera speed and high-ISO performance is also less important), I'm hoping that a Foveon sensor + SL lenses could potentially be a superb combo.

I just hope they will go back to true X3 Foveon with all 3 layers equal. I didn’t go to Quattro series for that reason and keep using my Merrills; DP2M and DP3M alongside M240.

[relms]

Good stuff here.  So refreshing to read positive comments about the SL from people who actually use the system.

[mjmoore]

Good stuff here.  So refreshing to read positive comments about the SL from people who actually use the system.

Love my SL - but I have to admit that I cannot wait to add the SL2!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[relms]

Love my SL - but I have to admit that I cannot wait to add the SL2!

 

I will be in line right behind you.