Servicing R cameras: the end of the story for R8 and R9

[Keith (M)]

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I'll stay with my R5, Gary - a lightweight compared with the R8!

[earleygallery]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:27 PM, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

Just FYI -- Here in the USA, I've had good luck with repairs to the Leicaflex SL (from Sherry Krauter).  Expensive but good spare part availability.  

Yes, that’s a mechanical camera with a cloth shutter. Completely different from the R models which are mostly electronic with complex metering options and metal shutter modules.

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[Danno_photoguy]

I fully understand the frustration and the feeling of loss.  I have a number of R bodies and lenses, including the R8 DMR.  I (like many of you) have waited for a VERY long time for the promised R digital solution (R10), and feel as if the SL is it.  I LOVE my R lenses on the SL, they are in fact the only lenses that I use on it (despite all the M lenses I have).  Who knows the future of the L mount partnership, but I am very grateful to have the SL to bring my R lenses back to life.  I may only use the R4's and R6's for film occasionally , but I am happy to be using that great R glass on my SL daily again.

[wlaidlaw]

I contacted Paepke Fototechnik a couple of weeks ago to ask if they had a battery compartment door for an R9. They came back to me advising that they neither have any spare parts for the R8 and 9, nor do they service them. They do service the earlier R3 - 7 models.

I believe following a conversation with Jimmy Hughes at Leica UK that Boris Jamchtchik of Photo Arsenal bought Leica's remaining stock of R8 and 9 spare parts. However as he can't be bothered to answer either emails or messages sent via Facebook Messenger, this does not help us R8/9 owners one whit and I don't think Leica have done us any favours with this action. 

Wilson

[jaapv]

I do know Will van Manen will service and attempt to repair R8 and R9 cameras, but is hampered by lack of parts. At any rate, according to Will, the cameras are too over-engineered and complex to make a repair economically interesting in most cases.

[wlaidlaw]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I do know Will van Manen will service and attempt to repair R8 and R9 cameras, but is hampered by lack of parts. At any rate, according to Wil, the cameras are too over-engineered and complex to make a repair economically interesting in most cases.

From the owners' POV, it would have been far better if Leica had passed on the R8 and 9 spare parts to recognised repairers, as they have done in the past to Malcolm Taylor, rather than to the very commercial, profit driven operation that is Photo-Arsenal. I don't imagine Leica were paid much for these obsolete parts and certainly not enough to make significant contribution to their balance sheet. It might have been a better long term decision to pass them on to people who actually repair the R8 and 9, like Will van Manen, DAG and Alan Starkie, announcing this action to the Leica community. The goodwill generated by this sort of gesture, would in the end, I suspect, be far more beneficial to Leica than the small amount of money they got for the parts. 

Wilson

[Keith (M)]

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It is indeed a shame but at least the spares situation does squash the slight temptation I had to replace my R5 with an R9!

[gbealnz]

Do it Keith, I'm certainly enjoying mine. It's not as huge as I told myself it would be, and so far it's a dream to use.

Gary

[wlaidlaw]

The R9 is actually is pretty much the same weight as the SL and without the Motor-R, that I have fitted a little smaller. I suspect I will mostly be using it with the 50/2 and 24/2.8 ROM lenses I have, as I am not a frequent telephoto user. I do have an 80-200/4 ROM if I really need one but when I have taken it along in the past, for use with SL or CL digitals, it has pretty much stayed in the camera bag. The R9 user interface seems very intelligently designed (other than the button locked power/mode selection switch) and the only thing I wish it had, is the focus confirmation indicator that my Contax RX had - very useful with the 85mm f1.2 Planar lens I had for a while.

I am rather looking forward to using the R9 on my trip to India in March. I have ordered 10 rolls of Kodak Pro-Image 100 colour negative film, which is supposed to work well in hot and humid climates. I have plenty of Agfa Precisa CT100 and Ektachrome E100 for reversal but I wonder with the often difficult lighting in India, if the wider dynamic range and less critical exposure latitude colour negative film might work better than reversal. 

Wilson

 

[Keith (M)]

59 minutes ago, gbealnz said:

Do it Keith, I'm certainly enjoying mine. It's not as huge as I told myself it would be, and so far it's a dream to use.

Gary

Get thee behind me, Satan!

[gbealnz]

While it is really only early days, I put the R9 and the Leicaflex SL together and the R9 IS bigger, but not greatly so.

I do like the A priority mode, and also am enjoying the M mode. With the Summicrons, 35 and 90 especially.

I located a small supply of Velvia recently, thought I would use it for pano's in the Hasselblads, but am now thinking the R9 would be perfect, them metering way better than my guesswork, and the SL's metering.

Gary

 

[gbealnz]

1 hour ago, Keith (M) said:

Get thee behind me, Satan!

LOL, I am Keith, right behind you all the way.

Gary

[gbealnz]

2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

The R9 is actually is pretty much the same weight as the SL and without the Motor-R, that I have fitted a little smaller. I suspect I will mostly be using it with the 50/2 and 24/2.8 ROM lenses I have, as I am not a frequent telephoto user. I do have an 80-200/4 ROM if I really need one but when I have taken it along in the past, for use with SL or CL digitals, it has pretty much stayed in the camera bag. The R9 user interface seems very intelligently designed (other than the button locked power/mode selection switch) and the only thing I wish it had, is the focus confirmation indicator that my Contax RX had - very useful with the 85mm f1.2 Planar lens I had for a while.

I am rather looking forward to using the R9 on my trip to India in March. I have ordered 10 rolls of Kodak Pro-Image 100 colour negative film, which is supposed to work well in hot and humid climates. I have plenty of Agfa Precisa CT100 and Ektachrome E100 for reversal but I wonder with the often difficult lighting in India, if the wider dynamic range and less critical exposure latitude colour negative film might work better than reversal. 

Wilson

 

Your rationale sort of mirrors mine Wilson, an explanation is necessary.

GAS, is cruel. I have the SL (Leicaflex, film, not the digi one) and it will always be with me. Summicrons 35/50/90, as a set. I had for a short time an SL (Typ601) and used the R lenses on it, had fun, but sold it.

Years ago, pre-digital times for me, I had a Contax N1, and the glorious Zeiss 24-85N & 70-300N. It WAS huge, heavy too, but A/F auto this auto that as well as being a very easy camera to use manually. I shot a lot of transparency film with it, seldom a poor exposure.

I recently considered another, but figured I would be better staying with the systems I have, not branching out into another system of body and lens(es). The Olympus system as well, I loved the OM3/4, but again, re-inventing the wheel to me, so I settled on the R8 or R9 as the most logical (again, to me).

Without putting them side by side, I'd say the R9 is no bigger than the N1, and I enjoy the ergonomics of the R9, and I can use my R lenses. What's not to like, LOL.

Gary

 

 

[wlaidlaw]

Gary, 

Don't buy an old N or even an old 645. They are sadly unrepairable and many had problems from new. I was a hardware beta tester back then and I suspect some of my reports to Contax UK, may have hastened the divorce between Kyocera and Zeiss. The ND was a shocker, using a 6MP FF sensor designed for industrial processing not photography at all, so all the firmware had to written from scratch and a very poor job it was too. The Zeiss in-house inspectors in Kyoto, were supposedly rejecting in excess of 75% of N and 645 AF lenses. As for the small digital Contaxes: The TD with its 20+ second start up time and the i4R, whose JPEG compression engine was completely wrong and was compressing by over 90%, thereby losing what little image quality there was to begin with. The i4R was withdrawn from sale in the UK in its first week, after my and a couple of other dire beta reports arrived at Contax in Reading. Alpha Digital who were some of the folk who used to be at Contax in Reading, used to repair the N and 645 models but I think no longer due to the absence of spares, a bit like the R9. The difference is the R9 is basically a reliable camera (better than the R8) the N models were not and the 645 was far from bullet proof either. They were both excellent concepts but very under-developed and poorly productionised. 

Wilson

[gbealnz]

T'was what I was thinking Wilson, and ironic given the original porters reason for this thread. I mean why buy an R8/9 when they are difficult or impossible to repair.

But as you suggest, at least they were sound from the outset. To be fair, my time with the N1 was not problematic, far from it, it was a wonderful camera. Maybe I was lucky.

Gary

[edstock]

Well Leica is a business and the world has changed  since the 1920's through 2000. We all know that as a business Leica has to change according to demands placed on it. This is not necessarily for it's past customers, but present and future. Film is not dead. Far from it but, digital has outpaced it in terms of consumer use and professional use. How many Japanese camera firms are making film cameras? How many are still servicing them. Can I get a Canon T-90 or F1 serviced by Canon? I don't know. Their "planned obsolescence" of products is well known and I don't think you find sentimentality is a Japanese boardroom. I have two wonderful well functioning R's, a 6.2 and 7. The cameras are accompanied by  lenses, winders and other equipment. As I quit shooting professionally, my demands on the cameras is less. At 75 I don't think it's likely I will wear them out. Same for my two M's for that matter. 

[wlaidlaw]

Given how little R8/9 cameras are fetching now, it is probably cheaper to buy another if yours breaks, than attempt to repair it. Hopefully if the second one also fails, it will be from a different cause from the first and you might be able to cannibalise one camera to repair the other. 

Wilson

[thebarnman]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:19 PM, wlaidlaw said:

I contacted Paepke Fototechnik a couple of weeks ago to ask if they had a battery compartment door for an R9. They came back to me advising that they neither have any spare parts for the R8 and 9, nor do they service them. They do service the earlier R3 - 7 models.

I believe following a conversation with Jimmy Hughes at Leica UK that Boris Jamchtchik of Photo Arsenal bought Leica's remaining stock of R8 and 9 spare parts. However as he can't be bothered to answer either emails or messages sent via Facebook Messenger, this does not help us R8/9 owners one whit and I don't think Leica have done us any favours with this action. 

Wilson

Maybe someone can take a sample of one and create a 3D print of it.  

[wlaidlaw]

2 hours ago, thebarnman said:

Maybe someone can take a sample of one and create a 3D print of it.  

It is not something I have to have, as the grip on the Motor-Winder I use replaces the original battery cover and holds the 2 x CR123A batteries that power both the camera and the Motor Winder. It was just something to have in case the motor winder fails at some point but I suspect it is more reliable than the camera. That is certainly what I have found on my M7. 

Wilson

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[cpclee]

I too very was upset when Leica abandoned the R system.  I sold off my 2 R cameras (R9, R6.2),  5 lenses and DMR.  

In 2010, Leica sort of shot themselves in the foot by communicating poorly about their future plans.  Had I known the SL (digital) was going to be released 5 years later and how versatile a camera it was going to be, I’d have held onto to my R system.  Instead, they only very vaguely said they would have “some solution” for R users without any ballpark of a time frame given.

Today I’m a happy owner of the SL system.  I think the SL is a fantastic “solution” for R users.  The only complaint I have about the SL is that the grip isn’t as comfortable to hold as the R9 but that’s easily solved by adding a handstrap.  (I use Eddycam’s elk leather strap which is very supple and comfortable.)  I’ve bought back some of the R lenses I sold and will continue to rebuild an R lens system for use with the SL as well as an R9 that I bought a year ago.  The SL, with a proper handstrap, feels very nimble and well balanced with R lenses.  The native SL lenses are optically phenomenal but are much bulkier so I only use my native lens (the 24-90 zoom) when the situation calls for AF.  

I have several M lenses too but I don’t ever use them on the SL.  The R lenses just feel more right.

Edited May 14, 2019 by cpclee