Leica M6 light meter does not work, when it is to dark.

[rushabpmore]

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So I recently wondered why the light meter in my M6 sometimes work and sometimes not. I discovered, if I screw off the 2-stop ND filter the light meter works. But If I screw the filter on, sometimes the light meter won't work at all, especially in shadows and in the evening. The arrows won't show until I took the shoot and pulled the film advance lever. The batteries is 2 months old so I think there isn't the problem.

Maybe some of you know what's going on.

And sorry for my bad English, I'm from Germany.. Please correct it.

Edit: Thanks for the replies.

One addition: The light wasn't that low. One time it was a sunny day. I was shooting in a tiny street with higher houses around. But it wasn't dark at all. I'm beginning to think about a bad contact in the light meter wiring or something.

[jaapv]

In the deep shadows, with an ND filter on (how strong?), it is not surprising at all that you drop under the metering range. Do the triangles flash when it happens?

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Edit: Thanks for the replies.

One addition: The light wasn't that low. One time it was a sunny day. I was shooting in a tiny street with higher houses around. But it wasn't dark at all. I'm beginning to think about a bad contact in the light meter wiring or something.

 

 

You are trying to make the meter do something it isn't able to do. Think of it this way, putting an ND filter over your meter is like squinting your eyes, the tighter you shut them all the shadows merge into one black mass and the last thing you see are a few highlights. The M6 meter is 'old tech' nowadays, it can't see into the shadows like a modern camera that you may be trying to compare it to. So take a meter reading without the ND filter and then add two stops exposure after you've screwed it back on.

[adan]

The arrows won't show until I took the shoot and pulled the film advance lever.

 

Perfectly normal. The meter of the M6 (as with all film Leicas) reads the picture light from a reflective white spot painted on the first shutter curtain.

 

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Leica/Leica-M6/M6-TTL/index.htm

 

The meter is thus "off" until the film is advanced and the shutter cocked, so that the white dot is visible.

 

As to shooting in dim light, the M6 meter operates down to an EV of -2. Which equates to 1/4 sec. at f/1 (Noctilux, wide-open) with ISO 100 film.

 

But in the same light, using ISO 800, with a lens set to f/4, and an ND2 filter, that limit will become ~8 stops higher, I.E. the meter will shut off when the shutter speed is at or slower than 1/500th second.

 

Remember that M lenses are always stopped down to the set aperture - at f/8, 1/16th as much light is reaching the meter as at f/2.

Edited September 22, 2018 by adan

[ramarren]

With the shutter cocked and wound, if the meter sometime works and sometimes doesn't work in the same lighting circumstances, with the same aperture setting and filter on the lens, that would indicate an intermittent malfunction probably in the meter wiring.

 

If, however, the meter always stops working when the light drops below a certain level, that indicates you're running out of metering range. Check your owner's manual to determine the metering range and do a test of the meter in circumstances forced to be at the limits to determine to your eye what the bottom of the metering range is so that you know what to expect when you're out making photographs.

 

(Most of the time when I use dark neutral density filters, I switch to a hand-held light meter as well to ensure that my meter readings are in line with my expectations.)

Edited September 22, 2018 by ramarren

[wattsy]

As to shooting in dim light, the M6 meter operates down to an EV of -2. Which equates to 1/4 sec. at f/1 (Noctilux, wide-open) with ISO 100 film.

 

But in the same light, using ISO 800, with a lens set to f/4, and an ND2 filter, that limit will become ~8 stops higher, I.E. the meter will shut off when the shutter speed is at or slower than 1/500th second.

 

 

With a 3 stop faster film, an aperture closed down 4 stops (from f1) and an ND2 (1 stop), I make that a net reduction of 2 stops. Not sure where you get the 8 stops from? Wouldn't the meter shut off at 1/15 in your example? Also, isn't -2 EV 4 seconds at F1 rather than 1/4 sec?

Edited September 22, 2018 by wattsy

[Pyrogallol]

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On my M6, with the shutter wound on, the under exposure triangle light would stay on, as it does when I test the shutter with just a body cap on the camera.

Remove the batteries and clean the contacts if the meter is erratic?

 

Why use a relatively low strength neutral density filter, why not just use a slower film? Or a faster shutter speed if the intention is to use a wider aperture.

[TomB_tx]

There are variations in the M6 meter circuit action in light below the metering threshold. My 1985 meter would flash the arrow when light was too dim, but when the meter board was replaced after being damaged by battery leakage the arrows just went dark in the same condition, nothing visible. I brought this up with the tech who did the repair, and he found a tech bulletin from Leica about a circuit mod to make it flash again. So it now flashes like it did originally. Probably uses a bit more battery, but I like the assurance that the meter is working, but below range.

[earleygallery]

I think this is a case of user error.

 

ND filters seem to be trendy, people are buying them and trying to use them with no real idea why. I see it a lot on other forums, but mostly from digital users.

 

Why are you trying to use the ND filter in low light situations out of interest?

 

Can I suggest reading the user manual to understand how your metering works and go from there.

[Mute-on]

Always check meter function with new batteries.

 

Two month old batteries, and sometimes even new ones, will be defective or run down quickly.

 

Also, use silver oxide batteries rather than the alkaline equivalent. The silver oxide last longer and maintain operating voltage over the life of the battery.

 

I had thought the meter in my MP was defective until I changed the one month old batteries for a new set, and no issues in two years since.

[adan]

With a 3 stop faster film, an aperture closed down 4 stops (from f1) and an ND2 (1 stop), I make that a net reduction of 2 stops. Not sure where you get the 8 stops from? Wouldn't the meter shut off at 1/15 in your example? Also, isn't -2 EV 4 seconds at F1 rather than 1/4 sec?

 

My error - EV -2 is 4 seconds not 1/4 second, with f/1 and ISO 100 film (or more precisely, since we are talking about the mechanics of the meter, with the ISO dial set to 100.)

 

So, set to ISO 800 and f/1, the meter will cut out at 1/2 second, and at f/4, it will cut out at 1/15th sec. Net change from 4 sec. to 1/15th sec. = 6 stops. Add an ND, and that becomes 7 or 8 stops (1/30th or 1/60th).

 

Regarding the ND filter value, that depends on the brand. Sometimes ND2 means 2 stops light reduction, sometimes ND2 means half the light (1 stop) and sometimes ND2 means 1/10² (logarithmic), or 1/100th the light (6.67 stops). I assumed the first because that is what I have used - but you are right, ambiguous.

Edited September 22, 2018 by adan