Move from digital to film?

[Nick Bedford]

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People are often baffled when I tell them the camera I'm holding has black and white film in it.

 

"That's so old school!"

"Wow, they still make film?"

 

Weird is a relative concept.

Shooting film in 2018 is weird to a lot of people.

Shooting a digital camera that only takes black and white photos or has no LCD is weird to a lot of people.

Paying Leica prices is weird to a lot of people.

Fortunately most of us are not those people...

I say cheers to Barnack, and long live the Null series.

[250swb]

Weird is a relative concept.

 

Shooting film in 2018 is weird to a lot of people.

 

Shooting a digital camera that only takes black and white photos or has no LCD is weird to a lot of people.

 

Paying Leica prices is weird to a lot of people.

 

Fortunately most of us are not those people...

 

I say cheers to Barnack, and long live the Null series.

 

Sometimes eccentricity works, but this thread is about spending somebody else's money by offering realistic suggestions, hopefully not an excuse to list camera's you yourself are absorbed by.

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[M9reno]

Yes, but the OP specifically asked for recommendations on “reliable”, “convenient” and “pleasurable” film Leicas. You are right that an orthodox balance of the three qualities would yield an M4-P, but that would be the end of the thread, and what fun would that be?

 

But seriously, the Null series plug is not gratuitous, It seems to me that such a camera surely fits the first of the criteria laid out by the OP: reliability. It is beautifully built and there’s so little inside it, far less than any other Leica film camera, in fact, that there’s incredibly little of importance to go wrong with it.

 

As for “convenient”, yes there’s a highly idiosyncratic and potentially steep learning curve, but with repetition, as with everything else, it can be routinised and mastered. Cap, set speed and aperture, advance, uncap, shoot, repeat. That’s it. If you don’t want to shoot the camera at arm’s length, stick on a 50mm viewfinder. Learn a bit about hyperfocal settings or just use a rangefinder accessory.

 

As for “pleasurable” - like weird - it is completely subjective. For someone wanting to experience the origin of the Leica snapshot technique, perfect. For someone thinking about using system lenses, not so much. My point was that if you are happy to deviate from the popular norm in shooting film today, you might find the greatest pleasure in going all the way!

 

Add the killer modern lens, and the fact that collectors will ensure a stable price for this limited edition in the future, and you have a plausible contender for a user, like the OP, who already knows something about Leica, as well as about film, and is curious about where to go next.

 

Just my few cents, in slits of 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50mm.

[a.noctilux]

Yes, but the OP specifically asked for recommendations on “reliable”, “convenient” and “pleasurable” film Leicas. You are right that an orthodox balance of the three qualities would yield an M4-P, but that would be the end of the thread, and what fun would that be?

 

But seriously, the Null series plug is not gratuitous, It seems to me that such a camera surely fits the first of the criteria laid out by the OP: reliability. It is beautifully built and there’s so little inside it, far less than any other Leica film camera, in fact, that there’s incredibly little of importance to go wrong with it.

 

As for “convenient”, yes there’s a highly idiosyncratic and potentially steep learning curve, but with repetition, as with everything else, it can be routinised and mastered. Cap, set speed and aperture, advance, uncap, shoot, repeat. That’s it. If you don’t want to shoot the camera at arm’s length, stick on a 50mm viewfinder. Learn a bit about hyperfocal settings or just use a rangefinder accessory.

 

As for “pleasurable” - like weird - it is completely subjective. For someone wanting to experience the origin of the Leica snapshot technique, perfect. For someone thinking about using system lenses, not so much. My point was that if you are happy to deviate from the popular norm in shooting film today, you might find the greatest pleasure in going all the way!

 

Add the killer modern lens, and the fact that collectors will ensure a stable price for this limited edition in the future, and you have a plausible contender for a user, like the OP, who already knows something about Leica, as well as about film, and is curious about where to go next.

 

Just my few cents, in slits of 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50mm.

 

Null Series Replica  

 

 

Comment only on blue text...

 

As user of Null Replica, I must adjust the sequences related here :

 -  cap on always other than when ready to take a picture, good advice

 - after a shoot, don't advance to the next frame

 - otherwise, it's not possible to adjust a different shutter speed if need be

 - shutter speed (slit) adjust is only possible when "half-advance-to-red-dot"

 

 - different from other which came after the Null Serie : push down the button to change the curtain slit width, not up.

[wattsy]

I agree with Steve that the 0-serie suggestion was unhelpful and I write as someone who likes and has owned one of these cameras for many years. Eccentricity and affectation aside, the advice just seems wrong. Isn't the OP hoping to use his Zeiss 28mm M lens with the camera? How is a Null series camera going to help with that?

Edited September 20, 2018 by wattsy

[a.noctilux]

KalumR,

 

In your place, I'd take one film Leica M with the amount of budget allowed.

Just to use it, then decide if film is for you.

 

If not, selling the film M with small lost or keep it ...

or replace it when more money comes later if you want something more expensive (like Black Paint, etc.)

 

...

As side note: M7 is the film M that operating is the most M8 like.

Edited September 20, 2018 by a.noctilux

[Mute-on]

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Black paint MP 0.72.

 

Built in light meter = convenient

New = reliable, or at least under warranty if any issues (I’ve not had any with my MP) and very limited reliance on electronics (unlike M7)

Black paint MP = pleasurable, obviously

 

If you can’t afford a new MP, then second hand, or get M2 and a light meter.

 

Done

[ramarren]

I will never transition from digital to film ... because I've never left film cameras behind anyway. . My last film M I bought in 2012: a beautiful old Leica M4-2, made in 1978. It had been sitting in a sock drawer for 22 years or so when I bought it: The lint and dust from that environment had crubbed up the viewfinder and rangefinder mirror, so I had the viewfinder cleaned and the shutter tested. That cost $100, and the camera was pretty inexpensive too (about $700). The shutter is slightly fast on one side and slightly slow on the other (about 1/3 stop at 1/1000 sec) so eventually I'll have that overhauled too. But it has worked perfectly for all the film I've put through it in the intervening six years (about 200 rolls).

 

I simply don't believe in the story that "every Leica M will need constant maintenance" or that they need parts all the time. I've owned Leica M film cameras since the early 1970s and this M4-2 is the first one I've had to have serviced for an actual fault, a consequence of neglect and improper storage. All my cameras get used, sometimes a lot.

 

But: I don't expect my digital Ms to have any problems either. Excepting the M9, their first full frame sensor equipped model with the well known fatal sensor corrosion which surfaced after they were in production for three years, and some early production problems on the first two model runs, the typ 240, 246, and 262 have had few if any consistent problems. It seems the same for the M10. My current M-D typ 262 has now turned the equivalent of 800 rolls of film in exposures made and is as perfect as it was the first day I took it home. I fully expect that it will out live me (I'm in my sixties now) if my Olympus E-1 one is any use as example (it's a 2003 camera, much more complex than a Leica M, still working perfectly after upwards of 35,000 exposures or 1000 rolls of film...). Yeah, I might eventually wear out the M's shutter and it might need a cleaning or two along the way. Every mechanical device needs some maintenance, somewhere along the line, and somewhere along the line parts might become difficult to obtain. Such is life.

 

So: I'd say do whatever makes you like. Buy whatever camera, film or digital, satisfies your needs and desires, keep it well, and use it. When it needs service, have it serviced. When it breaks and can no longer be serviced, buy another camera. What's important is doing your photography ... not the camera. Life is too short to worry about the lifespan of a mechanical device.

 

Equipment is transient. Photographs endure.

[AdamSinger]

I hate  digital  cameras, this is not  an art thing , I have digital cameras . This is not a digital versus analogue  thing,  its because  I am a klutz.  A klutz is some one who forgets to charge their battery, click nothing happens  who forgets to put the SD card back after editing, click nothing happens.  If you are blessed with the craft skills so that  this does not happen to you, be thankful. Thus I always keep a film camera to hand, preferably one  where the shutter is not dependant on a battery. Don't Sell the M8.2 till you want too. An M2 would be perfect, in fact any film M,  (even an M7 if you must !)  but I would go for a Minolta  CLE , (yes the shutter likes a battery but they are easy to find )  thats the original Leica CL but made properly, (Oh film CL fans don't take the fly ) Still a CLE is relatively  inexpensive,  its a thinking man's M7, ( ok you can start throwing things now ) I find my CLE has been reliable, will take M Lenses,  OK OK no 50 mm  viewfinder frame, so stick a cheap Russian viewfinder on the top, and don't shoot a Noctilux  wide open.  a CLE will do you proud till you are ready for the next step.Now the nature of this forum is that some will say they had  3 CLEs and every time the Higgins pinion that moves the flange, that aims the prism  that jack built, broke:  but all I can do is call it as I see it,  a CLE has been great for me. But if not a CLE then lll F or G, or failing that there is much to be said for Zeiss Box Tengor; Zeiss lens , big neg,  wot's not to like or the real Leica bargain  that's out there the Leica SL; OK it complicates matters  re lenses , but Classic Camera have  3 at the moment under £199.  Any way good luck, film is the photographers vinyl, and I shoot as much film as I do digital......that's when I have remembered to recharge the batteries,or put a roll in.

Edited September 20, 2018 by AdamSinger

[M9reno]

I agree with Steve that the 0-serie suggestion was unhelpful and I write as someone who likes and has owned one of these cameras for many years. Eccentricity and affectation aside, the advice just seems wrong. Isn't the OP hoping to use his Zeiss 28mm M lens with the camera? How is a Null series camera going to help with that?

Ok, I’ll stop digging now...

[AdamSinger]

Yes, but the OP specifically asked for recommendations on “reliable”, “convenient” and “pleasurable” film Leicas. You are right that an orthodox balance of the three qualities would yield an M4-P, but that would be the end of the thread, and what fun would that be?

 

But seriously, the Null series plug is not gratuitous, It seems to me that such a camera surely fits the first of the criteria laid out by the OP: reliability. It is beautifully built and there’s so little inside it, far less than any other Leica film camera, in fact, that there’s incredibly little of importance to go wrong with it.

 

As for “convenient”, yes there’s a highly idiosyncratic and potentially steep learning curve, but with repetition, as with everything else, it can be routinised and mastered. Cap, set speed and aperture, advance, uncap, shoot, repeat. That’s it. If you don’t want to shoot the camera at arm’s length, stick on a 50mm viewfinder. Learn a bit about hyperfocal settings or just use a rangefinder accessory.

 

As for “pleasurable” - like weird - it is completely subjective. For someone wanting to experience the origin of the Leica snapshot technique, perfect. For someone thinking about using system lenses, not so much. My point was that if you are happy to deviate from the popular norm in shooting film today, you might find the greatest pleasure in going all the way!

 

Add the killer modern lens, and the fact that collectors will ensure a stable price for this limited edition in the future, and you have a plausible contender for a user, like the OP, who already knows something about Leica, as well as about film, and is curious about where to go next.

 

Just my few cents, in slits of 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50mm.

Cap, set speed and aperture, advance, uncap, shoot, repeat……...One of the best descriptions of pre-pill 1950s sex I have read. But lets get real I have an an O ,  its lovely, and the delicate way it aggregates dust in my Barnack shrine is a marvel. But use it, no really?   I have used it, it is the most Zen like camera I have ever used, a whole roll of background as the doggy foreground by the time I had capped, uncapped, set focus had wandered off .  So zen in the sense  of 'what is the picture  of a dog in the forest  that has left before the shutter fired' ……. Still you are right the O like all great Lecia's is a  haptic joy to use. But use an O for a while and you realise why they  invented the Nikon F6.....I find using the O such a challenge that when I go out I  invariably  dither do I take the O or my 4x5 Gandolfi?   All that said you are not wrong

[pico]

Cap, set speed and aperture, advance, uncap, shoot, repeat……..

 

Everyone has forgotten 'extend the lens from the body and lock it in place' because you were carrying it in a pocket, were you not?

Edited September 20, 2018 by pico

[M9reno]

(Confession: I am travelling to South America tomorrow with a 0-series as only camera. So, yes, the thing has been in my mind and the Primitive Barnack Kool-Aid is talking. If anything worthwhile comes of it, I will post it in October.)

[250swb]

(Confession: I am travelling to South America tomorrow with a 0-series as only camera. So, yes, the thing has been in my mind and the Primitive Barnack Kool-Aid is talking. If anything worthwhile comes of it, I will post it in October.)

 

You can always repeat the trip if you miss any good pictures this time 

[Herr Barnack]

Weird is a relative concept.

 

Shooting film in 2018 is weird to a lot of people.

 

Shooting a digital camera that only takes black and white photos or has no LCD is weird to a lot of people.

 

Paying Leica prices is weird to a lot of people.

 

Fortunately most of us are not those people...

 

I say cheers to Barnack, and long live the Null series.

 

All the above is weird to some people, but this is considered normal to some people:

 

https://loeildelaphotographie.com/en/gender-sex-and-transgression-fotolimo-dd/?utm_source=Liste+ODLP+nouvelle+version&utm_campaign=f542fb47db-Newsletter+EN+21.9.2018&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_27b3627ade-f542fb47db-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28Newsletter+EN+21.9.2018%29

 

I'll take my weirdness with a red dot attached to it, thanks.  

 

I was weird today; I shot 1.5 rolls of Kodak Ektar 100 in my M4-P.  I used a handheld meter, a cable release and a tripod so it was borderline fetishism. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[jmahto]

Well, first time. There is always a first time. And I hope it won’t happen again. I didn’t check for the rewind crank rotating as I advanced the film in my M2. I happily shot ten frames then I noticed that film is not advancing!

 

Luckily it was just a morning walk and everyday light.

 

If I don’t carry digital side by side then I need to be very careful.

 

Edit: my better half tried to help by suggesting that Leica should detect that and display flashing red light. I wanted to tell her that it doesn’t even has light meter but then kept quiet.

Edited September 23, 2018 by jmahto

[philipus]

Hi K

 

I encourage you to go for film again. It will require a bit of a different workflow with developing, scanning, post-processing, but once set up it's quick and easy.

 

A reliable film M is any camera that has been serviced, so budget for that, or buy from a dealer that has serviced the camera.

 

It's a bit difficult to advise without knowing your budget but the M6 and the M6TTL are both sturdy reliable cameras with meters.

 

As for lenses, stick with the 28mm Zeiss. If you do want to add a 50 get a Summitar or for a little bit more a collapsible or rigid Summicron. They can be had without having to sell a kidney and are all great lenses.

 

I wouldn't waste money on black paint if that means preventing you from getting a camera in better condition or a 50mm lens.

 

br

Philip

 

 

Hi all, 

For the past few years i've been shooting with a Leica M8.2 with an f2.8/28mm Zeiss and I've been loving it! 

 

However, I am a little scared of future problems with the electronics and long, long-term reliability. I'd love to have a camera for a great deal of my life that just works - rather then one day waking up to a paper weight when I need it most. I have heard many horror stories of abhorrently large repair costs if sensors or electronics go, and my previous M8's shutter just exploded one day [but luckily caught it on insurance] - so definitely looking for something rugged.

 

I used to shoot film a fair bit on an old Pentax K1000 - so definitely familiar with the experience. But i'd love to hear someone convince me of selling/trading the M8.2 into the Leica filmsphere. 

 

I do not have infinite money to spend on lenses here - so I definitely need to keep using my 28mm [maybe a 50 can join the kit later down the line, or if I have some $ leftover]. I'd kill to keep a black paint body - as with the M8.2 I just adore the slow patina, but clearly everyone does and people obviously will pay for that quite a bit! 

 

Has anyone got some recommendations on what Leica is reliable, whats convenient and whats a pleasure to shoot film with? 

 

Sorry if I sound like an amateur - just keen for lots of opinions, 

Thanks all, 

K. 

[likealot]

To the OP: It very much depends what you call reliable.

 

Nothing (or very few things) lasts forever without developing a fault now and again or needing a service. How long your product will last depends on how you look after it, how often you use it and (the most important thing) fate.

 

People keep saying that digital doesnt last forever and that may be the case but I know a few people that are still using Nikon D40 which they have bought brand new 10-12 years ago, and have never had a problem.

 

The other thing to consider with expensive products tody is that you are not just splashing on the product but also committing to some hefty service and maintenance prices. By the time you have paid for servicing for 5 years you can easily buy another product.

 

My advice would be that you continue to enjoy the M8.2 for as long as it lasts. When it eventually dies check how much it would be to repair it and based on that decide if you want to repair it and carry on or by another camera. By then, you never know, the cost of the M10 might have gone down quite a lot.  

 

 

[oldwino]

I like the idea of using a 0-series camera for a while. It would make going back to a M or even a III seem like luxury!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Einst_Stein]

The other type of nightmaremight be to find out the discontinue of films.