M10 underexposing and metering question

[SMAL]

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No, as Michael explains (same on the M10).....

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246504-classic-metering-vs-advance-metering/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2835755

 

In classic metering mode, the M meters off the shutter curtain as noted (center weighted). But advanced, multifield metering can be activated without going to live view setting, and there is a shutter delay since metering is off the sensor in that case, just like in LV mode.

 

Jeff

 

I can´t find an option like that in my M10 menu. It´s live view or center weighted.

[a.noctilux]

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246504-classic-metering-vs-advance-metering/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2835755

 

mjh wrote

 

You can set the kind of advanced metering to be used in advanced metering mode, even when advanced metering is currently turned off. As far as I remember it has always been that way, regardless of the firmware version. And advanced metering is not tied to live view; you can use advanced metering without activating live view. You still have to accept an increased shutter lag as the shutter needs to open and close for metering first, followed by the actual exposure. Classic metering is much faster.

Edited by mjh, 16 June 2015 - 08:59.

 

 

 

This provided link (Jun 2015) was released before M10, something may be explained in M10 case.

Edited September 15, 2018 by a.noctilux

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[Jeff S]

I can´t find an option like that in my M10 menu. It´s live view or center weighted.

Go into the exposure metering menu.

 

Jeff

[SMAL]

Go into the exposure metering menu.

 

Jeff

 

I did right before I answered to you. It doesn´t matter what you set it to. As soon as you are not in Live view it uses center weighted metering.

The link you are referring to is from 2015, so before the M10 has been released. The manual of the M10 also only states center weighted metering when using OVF.

[Jeff S]

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246504-classic-metering-vs-advance-metering/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2835755

That’s why I added “same with the M10”, as I think it operates the same way, despite the manual wording. But I’ll stand corrected if demonstrated otherwise.

 

Jeff

[SMAL]

That’s why I added “same with the M10”, as I think it operates the same way, despite the manual wording. But I’ll stand corrected if demonstrated otherwise.

 

Jeff

 

Unfortunately it doesn´t. As soon as live view is turned off the camera is operating in center weighted metering.

[a.noctilux]

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Jeff,

I can be wrong...

 

In my experience, M10 has small shutter delay (very small as older film M, a couple of 10 milliseconds ) when used without LV or EVF.

In LV /EVF use , much longer something as 1/10s or more .

[SMAL]

Jeff,

I can be wrong...

 

In my experience, M10 has small shutter delay (very small as older film M, a couple of 10 milliseconds ) when used without LV or EVF.

In LV /EVF use , much longer something as 1/10s or more .

 

It definitely feels exactly like that.

[a.noctilux]

For me it's the way to go as in Spot metering, the Spot can be set/moved around in the field in M10 + LV.

Not same with the fixed center position with M (typ 240).

Edited September 15, 2018 by a.noctilux

[SMAL]

But I don´t want to use LV (mostly), but I want a different metering mode. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've done manual metering (with my M2) but I get good results using the classic metering by focusing, pointing at the part of the scene that I want to set an exposure by (so that highlights are protected), hold this with half press, recompose and shoot.  Or just compose and shoot if the light is not tricky.  With the long dynamic range of the M10, rescuing a slightly underexposed raw file is not hard when I miss on exposure.  And I find center weighted works fine for 80-90% of all shots.

[pgh]

How very critical is short shutter delay for your use? Really.

People enjoy Leicas for the way they "get out of the way" - when we start having to come up with workarounds to use basic functions, simple as they may be, we are in the land of there probably being a better tool for the purpose.

 

If I need all of these things in one shoot I'll just grab my Sony - much easier than fiddling around.

And the issue with carrying extra batteries is, well, at nearly $200 a pop...and again, the Leica is about not fiddling with extra stuff...not worth it to some of us. And yes I know the camera itself is quite a bit of change - that doesn't make $200 a negligible amount of money for some people. 

 

Edit to also mention the obvious - the Leica was the camera that popularized the notion of "The decisive moment" - so probably for most users shutter delay is an actual issue. You can use it for whatever - but it's designed to be out in the world capturing moments, not studio still life images or still landscapes. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by pgh

[jaapv]

Can you simplify how the M10 meters just with the OVF?

We do have a FAQ....

 

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/125097-the-original-faq-thread/?p=1945710

[SMAL]

People enjoy Leicas for the way they "get out of the way" - when we start having to come up with workarounds to use basic functions, simple as they may be, we are in the land of there probably being a better tool for the purpose.

 

If I need all of these things in one shoot I'll just grab my Sony - much easier than fiddling around.

And the issue with carrying extra batteries is, well, at nearly $200 a pop...and again, the Leica is about not fiddling with extra stuff...not worth it to some of us. And yes I know the camera itself is quite a bit of change - that doesn't make $200 a negligible amount of money for some people. 

 

Edit to also mention the obvious - the Leica was the camera that popularized the notion of "The decisive moment" - so probably for most users shutter delay is an actual issue. You can use it for whatever - but it's designed to be out in the world capturing moments, not studio still life images or still landscapes. 

 

What do you mean by "all these things". All I am missing or would wish for is a delay free metering mode that is more reliable than center weighted. 

 

Don´t get me wrong I hugely love my first Leica experience and will never ever sell that camera. My Sonys are collecting dust right now. 

[pico]

People enjoy Leicas for the way they "get out of the way" - when we start having to come up with workarounds to use basic functions, simple as they may be, we are in the land of there probably being a better tool for the purpose.

 

Please tell us how a personally configured Leica to be like an early M 'gets in one's way'.

Edited September 15, 2018 by pico

[Mute-on]

Does AE lock, or what Leica refers to as Metering Memory Lock on p. 170 of the German/English manual not operate with the OVF?

 

If it does, simply meter off a mid-tone in your scene, lock metering, recompose, and shoot. Easy.

 

Caveat: I use an MP, not M10, but I assume the centre weighted average metering works similarly...

[pgh]

Please tell us how a personally configured Leica to be like an early M 'gets in one's way'.

If you're configuring it in a way that increases shutter lag or drains the battery more quickly, that qualifies for me. If it doesn't qualify for you that's fine. 

[pgh]

What do you mean by "all these things". All I am missing or would wish for is a delay free metering mode that is more reliable than center weighted. 

 

Don´t get me wrong I hugely love my first Leica experience and will never ever sell that camera. My Sonys are collecting dust right now. 

If am greatly concerned about having a different (average scene) meter, combined with no compromise in shutter delay, I will use my Sony.

 

I generally am happy to use the Leica's built in meter on it's terms, but if I'm not, I'm not gonna go the cumbersome route of using the mediocre live view function. If I need live view, average scene metering and I need them to work seamlessly without inordinately draining the battery I won't use my M10.

 

I rarely need those things, but it's the exact thing you're wishing for here that the M10 won't provide - and that if were super important to a shoot, I'd just take the more appropriate tool, and I don't think that's a silly thing to do. The M10 isn't for everything and it's simplicity sometimes is an actual lake of capabilities. 

[pico]

If you're configuring it in a way that increases shutter lag or drains the battery more quickly, that qualifies for me. If it doesn't qualify for you that's fine. 

 

Okay. We are good! I can anticipate situations where spending a lot of time in Live View makes sense, but but not often. Thank you for being here,

Edited September 16, 2018 by pico

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[adan]

SMAL:

 

1) you are quite correct that to get the fastest shutter response with the M10, you need to skip having live-view turned on. And that leaves you with only one metering approach - strongly center-weighted. A fixed and immovable metering cell, staring at fixed and immovable gray paint stripes on the shutter. Which can often be over-influenced by something dark or light in the center of your composition, or with wider lenses, by the sky.

 

2) As others have mentioned, you can get around that by meter-and-recompose using the exposure lock (half press of the shutter button), or using the thumbwheel on the camera back to rapidly dial in some exposure compensation per shot, or shooting in manual, and taking a "global" meter reading with a separate incident lightmeter, or off a gray card. But all those also take a certain amount of time away from chasing moments and expressions and gestures. Or don't work well in variable light.

 

3) But you say you were happy to overexpose with your Canon/Sony, and then recover highlights in post.

 

Have you tried doing the exact opposite with the M10 - recovering shadows in post? Because the M10 has a pretty massive amount of shadow detail in raw files, that is "masked" by a heavy default contrast curve, but can be recovered to an surprising amount with the basic "Exposure" and "Shadow" sliders. With maybe a touch of added-back mid-tone contrast to prevent the image getting too gray and "HDR-looking" - just depends on the lighting.

 

As a photojournalist, I often live by "A" mode, classic metering (never LV), and a minus-.67 exp. comp. to protect the highlights from blowing, and because after using the M10 for 17 months, I know that a really dark-appearing default image has a lot of space for opening up, without color distortions or much added noise or other strange tonal effects.

 

Here's an M10 gallery event snap I made, quick while the expressions lasted. I did notice the white wall would skew the CW metering, and scrolled in three clicks more positive exp. comp. with my thumb as I raised the camera to my eye (net: +0.33). Not enough by itself, obviously, but I pulled up the other 1-1.5 stops of underexposure with a click of the exposure and shadows sliders in post. ISO 6400. 90mm f/2.8.

 

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And that is by no means the most extreme shadow-pull I've done with the M10 - there is a serious amount of good stuff hidden under the M10's default contrast curve: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/288283-high-iso-m10-vs-q/?p=3591563