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M10 underexposing and metering question


SMAL

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Hey guys,

so coming from a long DSLR (Canon) and Mirrorless (Sony) background I always liked to over expose my photos by 1/3-2/3 of a stop and then recovering it in post, cause it simply gave me great quality. On weddings I love to shoot in Aperture Priority with manual ISO and an exposure compensation set +2/3 while using evaluative metering.

Now with the M10 and when using it without LV the only possible metering mode is center weighted and the M10 tends to underexpose by 1,5 Stops as soon as there is a brighter background in the middle or as soon as there is a good amount of sky in the background. For me center weighted seems really unpredictable and my solution for now is simply shooting everything in manual. I already realized that over exposing is a bad idea with the M10 and adjusted that in my mind, but is there no way to take advantage of modern technology and get consistent exposure with aperture priority?

Thanks!

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If you manage to shoot fully manual, that will always be the best way to get consistent exposure (with any camera). From time to time I try aperture priority or auto ISO for a few shots, but I very soon go back to manual because I feel that's the safest and best.

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Hey guys,

 

so coming from a long DSLR (Canon) and Mirrorless (Sony) background I always liked to over expose my photos by 1/3-2/3 of a stop and then recovering it in post, cause it simply gave me great quality. On weddings I love to shoot in Aperture Priority with manual ISO and an exposure compensation set +2/3 while using evaluative metering.

 

Now with the M10 and when using it without LV the only possible metering mode is center weighted and the M10 tends to underexpose by 1,5 Stops as soon as there is a brighter background in the middle or as soon as there is a good amount of sky in the background. For me center weighted seems really unpredictable and my solution for now is simply shooting everything in manual. I already realized that over exposing is a bad idea with the M10 and adjusted that in my mind, but is there no way to take advantage of modern technology and get consistent exposure with aperture priority?

 

Thanks!

No really - the genes of any M camera are fully manual, with any automation late-life add-ons.

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Hey guys,

 

so coming from a long DSLR (Canon) and Mirrorless (Sony) background I always liked to over expose my photos by 1/3-2/3 of a stop and then recovering it in post, cause it simply gave me great quality. On weddings I love to shoot in Aperture Priority with manual ISO and an exposure compensation set +2/3 while using evaluative metering.

 

Now with the M10 and when using it without LV the only possible metering mode is center weighted and the M10 tends to underexpose by 1,5 Stops as soon as there is a brighter background in the middle or as soon as there is a good amount of sky in the background. For me center weighted seems really unpredictable and my solution for now is simply shooting everything in manual. I already realized that over exposing is a bad idea with the M10 and adjusted that in my mind, but is there no way to take advantage of modern technology and get consistent exposure with aperture priority?

 

Thanks!

 

You'll likely get some some haughty lecture here about "knowing your tools" and blaming you for the bad exposures. But, coming from other current technologies I very much relate to your experiences, and while it's true you should learn the tool it's also true that the M10 is weird in this way (if you search the forum you will find plenty of discussions about blown highlights and what actually constitutes a "good" exposure on the M10 - which, as you've found out, can be quite different from other manufacturers).

 

The solution, really, is to shoot manual - or really get a good sense of how finicky the meter is (really, it is almost like a spot meter) and how to use that in a shooting method that constitutes metering and reframing etc. The meter is consistently jumping around because it's pretty far from the scene average that is the default in other cameras. It's not a bad meter or tool per say. And yea, do not overexpose the M10 in most circumstance. I miss that ability myself, but you learn to live with it. I will note that I've found the M10 meter to be more finicky (or precise, depending on how you use) than the M6 or M8 meters as well. I'm not sure if that's demonstrable or just me. 

Edited by pgh
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I sure expect to read some critique about me, but I don’t bother since there are always the helpful people like you guys so far!

 

Now that you said it, it really feels like a spot meter. The way the meter reacts to bright parts in the center.

 

But hey, if the only solution is to shoot manual and get the exposure spot on or under I can totally do that. I didn’t bought a M10 because it is the latest high end technology (which it is obviously not). I bought it to get back in the whole process of creating a photo and of course because Leica cameras are amazingly beautiful.

Edited by SMAL
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Gentlemen, I am going to disagree about always using manual exposure. Knowing your tools includes knowing the camera's behavior. The M10 includes a Multi-Field exposure option which I find useful, and in extreme conditions I can always switch modes, take a quick substitute reading and lock it in. It really works for me and I'm no slouch (You must take my word on that).

Edited by pico
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Gentlemen, I am going to disagree about always using manual exposure. Knowing your tools includes knowing the camera's behavior. The M10 includes a Multi-Field exposure option which I find usefu., and in extreme conditions I can always switch modes, take a quick substitute reading and lock it in. It really works for me and I'm no slouch (You must take my word on that).

.

 

Like I said in my initial post. This only works with live view turned on. With the OVF you only have center weighted metering. No other option.

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Like I said in my initial post. This only works with live view turned on. With the OVF you only have center weighted metering. No other option.

 

You can turn on EVF for multi-field metering even if you use only the optical finder/RF.

Edited by pico
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You can turn on EVF for multi-field metering even if you use only the optical finder/RF.

 

Yes, but the battery drains faster and more annoying is the shutter delay you get with LV.

 

Would this be fixable via firmware? Like getting all metering modes without LV?

 

EDIT: I have three batteries so it´s not that issue, but in the evening the turned on LV is simply distracting while using the OVF.

Edited by SMAL
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You can turn on EVF for multi-field metering even if you use only the optical finder/RF.

 

What bother me with M10 in this configuration LV metering + use OVF for viewing is some time lag when press release button.

It would be more manageable if only this time lag is constant, but it's not :angry:.

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How very critical is short shutter delay for your use? Really.

 

I really think it´s annoying. And it´s always different how long the delay will be. I hate to press the shutter and have the feeling it captured the moment after the one I wanted. I love how direct it all feels with the OVF though.

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Yes, but the battery drains faster and more annoying is the shutter delay you get with LV.

 

Would this be fixable via firmware? Like getting all metering modes without LV?

 

EDIT: I have three batteries so it´s not that issue, but in the evening the turned on LV is simply distracting while using the OVF.

 

I don't think so that can be fixed, as M10 opens the shutter to meter then close it down to reopen/close for exposure.

That takes some time to be done.

 

The variable delay is very Leica M unlike.

Edited by a.noctilux
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I don't think so that can be fixed, as M10 opens the shutter to meter then close it down to reopen/close for exposure.

That takes some time to be done.

 

The variable delay is very Leica M unlike.

 

Can you simplify how the M10 meters just with the OVF?

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Can you simplify how the M10 meters just with the OVF?

 

When used without LV or EVF, the M10 metering is always on the center weighted mode read from the cell inside the chamber reflected from the shutter blind.

In "A" mode or "M" mode, without LV or Visoflex use the delay is the shortest possible like other film M.

 

More that in...

M10 English Manual page 168

Edited by a.noctilux
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When used without LV or EVF, the M10 metering is always on the center weighted mode read from the cell inside the chamber reflected from the shutter blind.

In "A" mode or "M" mode, without LV or Visoflex use the delay is the shortest possible like other film M.

 

More that in...

M10 English Manual page 168

No, as Michael explains (same on the M10).....

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246504-classic-metering-vs-advance-metering/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2835755

 

In classic metering mode, the M meters off the shutter curtain as noted (center weighted). But advanced, multifield metering can be activated without going to live view setting, and there is a shutter delay since metering is off the sensor in that case, just like in LV mode.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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