New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[frame-it]

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well, it says :

 

) Entry level Full Frame L-mount camera with IBIS, 4k60p and Low Resolution Sensor
2) Pro level Full Frame L-mount camera with IBIS, 4k60p and High Resolution Sensor (close to 50MP)
3) New Full Frame 24-70mm zoom lens
4) New Full Frame 50mm fast prime
5) New Full Frame 70-200mm zoom lens

 

 

IBIS

Edited September 21, 2018 by frame-it

[RomeoBravo]

Geometrically completely impossible from mount sizes , not to mention that MFT lenses do not even begin to cover full frame.

 

 

M43 is 19.25 and L is 19.00 so the M43 lenses would need to be spaced 0.25 mm farther from the sensor.

 

I can’t see it being worth the trouble of making an adaptor when the M43 lenses would be nowhere near FF coverage and there are plenty of M43 cameras available.

 

 

And good for that. Besides, why would anyone want to really use M43 lens on full frame sensor camera.  Image circle for M43 lens is about half of image circle for full frame lens, projected image would cover equivalent of one quarter of full frame sensor. Simple solution to this is to use M43 lens with M43 camera.

 

 

All great points that I thought of when that rumor was first floated.  I assumed it would only be useful for current M43 users that want to switch to the FF Panasonic FOR VIDEO.  Considering most Canon cameras use a 1.7x crop for 4k, a 2x crop for M43 lenses doesn't seem that far off.  But then the math for flange distance still doesn't work.  

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[mmradman]

https://www.l-rumors.com/l5-on-sept-25-panasonic-will-annonce-the-development-of-two-ff-cameras-and-three-ff-lenses/

 

24-70 and 70-200 is a good pair of zooms, maybe TC soon, hopefully more streamlined than Leica 24-90 and 90-280mm behemoths.  

[frame-it]

unless in this new camera, the sensor position has been modified

But then the math for flange distance still doesn't work.  

Edited September 21, 2018 by frame-it

[LD_50]

unless in this new camera, the sensor position has been modified

If the sensor position (assuming you’re referring to flange distance) is modified, it’s no longer L mount. The existing L lenses would not work without adapter.

[frame-it]

you're right...but if its got IBIS on the sensor it might be different

If the sensor position (assuming you’re referring to flange distance) is modified, it’s no longer L mount. The existing L lenses would not work without adapter.

[Jeff S]

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https://www.l-rumors.com/leica-panasonic-and-sigma-are-becomig-new-partners-to-build-a-new-full-frame-system-around-the-sl-mount/

 

Leica+Sigma+Panasonic ...... what's not to like ?

 

This looks like a shrewd tactical move in a difficult and shrinking market..... and as is mentioned a good way of producing a 'system' quickly due to the cross compatibility.

See discussion from yesterday’s link.

 

Jeff

[LD_50]

you're right...but if its got IBIS on the sensor it might be different

Why would it be different with IBIS? It’s either L mount or not. IBIS doesn’t require greater flange distance.

[BernardC]

Besides, why would anyone want to really use M43 lens on full frame sensor camera.

 

The main reason is video. Contrary to what many internet pundits say, a smaller frame size can be an advantage for many video productions.

 

M43 is halfway between Super-16 and Super-35, so it's well within the range of historical cinema gauges. So-called "full frame" (Vistavision in cine terms) forces you to stop-down a lot if you want reasonable depth of field to keep your subjects in focus.

 

That means more lights, more budget, and more setup time. You can always try pushing the ISO, but what if your location is already dimly lit, like a restaurant at night? What if that restaurant opens-up to the street? You can make the restaurant brighter, but it's expensive to make the street brighter.

 

That being said, most people who want a m43 adapter seem to be interested in using their existing lenses for still photography. That won't work well. They will need new lenses if they move to any FF system.

 

Such an adapter can be made if the "brains" are inside the camera. There are historical examples of adapters that fit inside a mount, like M to L39 (LSM). The SL wouldn't support this adapter, because the SL firmware doesn't know how to control m43 lenses.

[Chaemono]

I was just about to post these links.

Some very interesting stuff here. Some of my wishes:

-I hope the DFD2 AF is a lot better than the AF on the current SL

-These partners make a camera using a foveon sensor, L mount, and decent AF

-Sigma makes an adapter similar to the MC-11 to bring Canon EF lenses to the SL system (that works better and costs less than the Novoflex)

-Make some constant aperture zooms that aren't the size of a bazooka

-Make a FF version of the Pana/Leica 42.5/1.2 - that was lens was the only reason I kept my m43 camera for a year. It was also the only lens that my wife would stop and ask "what lens did you use for that portrait" when I used it...and I have a LOT of lenses!

So why do these manufacturers even go with the L-mount? What does Leica add that they can’t do on their own?

[lx1713]

Geometrically completely impossible from mount sizes , not to mention that MFT lenses do not even begin to cover full frame.

 

 

I would want to use MFT lenses to shoot at MFT cropped sensor size on an L-mount camera because I've a variety of work. Sometimes a compact set of lenses and IBIS is all that's needed to deliver. I would like them to be all L-mount rather than run different systems and deal with subsequent post production.

 

An example : I needed to go up on a crane in a man cage, about 80 m in the air, the spinning and the vibrations made it difficult to do without IBIS. Changing lenses was also tough so small and compact is good because the cage is small. TL lenses will do but without IS and IBIS, its a no go.

 

Having Panasonic lenses to offset the system cost is a good thing. If I have to risk a body with a lens, I will risk a Leica SL and a Panasonic lens. I may be wrong in my calculations but that will be how I will work.

Edited September 21, 2018 by lx1713

[mmradman]

The main reason is video. Contrary to what many internet pundits say, a smaller frame size can be an advantage for many video productions.

 

M43 is halfway between Super-16 and Super-35, so it's well within the range of historical cinema gauges. So-called "full frame" (Vistavision in cine terms) forces you to stop-down a lot if you want reasonable depth of field to keep your subjects in focus.

 

That means more lights, more budget, and more setup time. You can always try pushing the ISO, but what if your location is already dimly lit, like a restaurant at night? What if that restaurant opens-up to the street? You can make the restaurant brighter, but it's expensive to make the street brighter.

 

That being said, most people who want a m43 adapter seem to be interested in using their existing lenses for still photography. That won't work well. They will need new lenses if they move to any FF system.

 

Such an adapter can be made if the "brains" are inside the camera. There are historical examples of adapters that fit inside a mount, like M to L39 (LSM). The SL wouldn't support this adapter, because the SL firmware doesn't know how to control m43 lenses.

So the video is the answer.  Well, good luck to video users, plenty of good M43 cameras around. Ultimately Pansonic should provide the answer, it is them who need to protect legacy.

  

BTW there are manual focus M43 lenses like Voightlander, so lens can be used stopped down.

[frame-it]

sure..but would Panasonic want to hurt sales of their GH5 ?

So the video is the answer.  Well, good luck to video users, plenty of good M43 cameras around.

[mmradman]

sure..but would Panasonic want to hurt sales of their GH5 ?

I wouldn’t know, no interest into either video or M43 system.

[BernardC]

sure..but would Panasonic want to hurt sales of their GH5 ?

 

They have a video ecosystem from Micro 4/3 all the way to video cameras used for major motion pictures. They want their new cameras to work within that system so they can sell to existing users.

 

I suppose the sales pitch would be that GH5 users can use their existing lenses for 4K in a cropped frame, or use new full-frame lenses for 4K (or 6/8K) in a bigger frame. The colour response and CODECs would be the same, so no problem mixing and matching shots.

[Chaemono]

well, it says :

 

) Entry level Full Frame L-mount camera with IBIS, 4k60p and Low Resolution Sensor

2) Pro level Full Frame L-mount camera with IBIS, 4k60p and High Resolution Sensor (close to 50MP)

 

 

IBIS

Let’s see what the AF and the EVF will be like. If AF is on par with the Nikon Zs and the bodies have two card slots, Panasonic has a winner with the L-mount. Why would anyone go for the Nikon Zs or the Canon EOS-R except for battery compatibility. Any legacy Canon and Nikon lenses can be adapted in addition to the incredible SL lenses. If they do the little microlenses trick on the sensor, even M lenses will work well enough. These Panasonic mirrorless bodies will be a FF photographer’s wetdream. Somehow I see people canceling their Z and EOS-R orders.

[lct]

Let’s see what the AF and the EVF will be like. If AF is on par with the Nikon Zs and the bodies have two card slots, Panasonic has a winner with the L-mount. Why would anyone go for the Nikon Zs or the Canon EOS-R except for battery compatibility. Any legacy Canon and Nikon lenses can be adapted in addition to the incredible SL lenses. If they do the little microlenses trick on the sensor, even M lenses will work well enough. These Panasonic mirrorless bodies will be a FF photographer’s wetdream. Somehow I see people canceling their Z and EOS-R orders.

 

Makes me postpone my Sony A73 mod order for now but i will check if the Pana body has a sensor stack thin enough to compete with Kolari modded Sony bodies. I don't expect compatibility issues with R lenses but M lenses, especially wides, are another story.

[RomeoBravo]

So why do these manufacturers even go with the L-mount? What does Leica add that they can’t do on their own?

 

Umm...Leica's name for one.  Also because of the partnership between Leica and Panasonic that already exists.  Many people have suspected that the SL is just a Panasonic camera in a Leica body (video features, CDAF that is probably using DFD).  So this would technically be Panasonic's 2nd gen of FF cameras.  I have no idea why it would be beneficial for Leica to add Sigma to the mix.  I know a lot of people like the new Art line, but it seems odd for Leica (who makes the best lenses in the world with heaps of microcontrast) to partner with a company that makes lenses lacking in microcontrast.

Edited September 21, 2018 by RomeoBravo

[jaapv]

Leica brings optical expertise, camera design, fine-mechanical expertise, microlens patents to the mix. Panasonic video, electronic components, sensor technology, manufacturing capacity. Sigma... ??? The only thing I can think of is bayerless sensor technology. And maybe money? The company missing, BTW, is Olympus.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LocalHero1953]

Umm...Leica's name for one.  Also because of the partnership between Leica and Panasonic that already exists.  Many people have suspected that the SL is just a Panasonic camera in a Leica body (video features, CDAF that is probably using DFD).  So this would technically be Panasonic's 2nd gen of FF cameras.  I have no idea why it would be beneficial for Leica to add Sigma to the mix.  I know a lot of people like the new Art line, but it seems odd for Leica (who makes the best lenses in the world with heaps of microcontrast) to partner with a company that makes lenses lacking in microcontrast.

Rather more recognise that the SL really is a Leica designed and made camera that happens to use components from other sources - probably including Panasonic! And scratch a Panasonic, and I'm sure you'll find components made by others under the skin, and not just by Leica.

This chestnut keeps coming round - what is it about Leica that makes it difficult to imagine them not having the ability to design and make such a camera?

That said, I am sure Panasonic have incorporated (Leica's) lessons from the SL in this new camera - assuming it exists  .