New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[caissa]

The SL won me over because it feels like an old R camera. I mean haptics.

I would really like to see a comparison of how the current cameras "feel". Their rubber surfaces look alike from far away, but close-up feel very different. And if you have to hold a camera for several hours every day, then this contact counts. Maybe still too early because hardly anybody has yet touched a S1 or S1R.

[sillbeers15]

The only thing I am keen to find out is the S1/S1R AF-C tracking capability. I do not expect it to be the best AF tracking in the industry but looking forward to a useable and fairly accurate tracking when compared to the A9, Z7 & other current FF mirrorless cameras especially from the decent AF tracking reviews of G9. I hope that production versions and later firmware updates will not disappoint as this will be a close indicator of SL2’s AF Tracking capacity to come later in 2019 since Leica camera’s AF is clearly a development by Panasonic. Since there is body stability on S1/S1R, we can pretty certain expect the same on the coming SL2.

[rob_w]

On 2/6/2019 at 7:49 PM, thighslapper said:

Sony, Canon, Nikon and now Panasonic all individually have some ingredients of the 'perfect' mirrorless FF camera ... but to date no-one has managed to combine them ..... and certainly not with the simplicity of use of an SL. 

Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation.  Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2.   Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available.

Frankly, I would pull the trigger if I were not waiting (impatiently) to see Leica's response.  When will the "other shoe" fall?

Edited February 8 by rob_w

[Martin B]

2 hours ago, rob_w said:

Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation.  Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2.   Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available.

Frankly, I would pull the trigger if I were not waiting (impatiently) to see Leica's response.  When will the "other shoe" fall?

Reports are available about this, and the Canon R system is the worst currently compared to the Nikon Z and Panasonic S MLCs for adapting M lenses. The Canon R has the thickest sensor cover glass of all of them! Different story for adapting Leica R lenses since they are made for SLR systems and can "live" with a thicker sensor glass cover. 

[Boojay]

3 hours ago, rob_w said:

Of these competitors, I would argue Canon has the most compelling offering for anyone without previous affiliation.  Great 50/1.2 lens according to reports, nice balance in the hand re weight and size, AF that is fast and accurate even at f1.2.   Not sure about performance adapted M and R lenses yet -- doesn't seem to be any reports available.

Sure I must have posted something here on the forum.  I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses.  I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was  fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass.  I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor.    AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses.

I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal controls, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica,  and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me.  

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Edited February 8 by Boojay

[Martin B]

4 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Sure I must have posted something here on the forum.  I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses.  I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was  fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass.  I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor.    AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses.

I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal control's, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica,  and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me.  

 

 

Not surprised to see these results coming from (some longer) DSLR lenses. The difference with the sensor glass comes in when shooting with wide M-mount lenses especially below 28 mm FL. I read that the Canon R is not the most convenient to focus with manual focus lenses either, but I have no personal experience with it. 

Edited February 8 by Martin B

[Boojay]

2 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Not surprised to see these results coming from (some longer) DSLR lenses. The difference with the sensor glass comes in when shooting with wide M-mount lenses especially below 28 mm FL. I read that the Canon R is not the most convenient to focus with manual focus lenses either, but I have no personal experience with it. 

Yes Martin, I have read the same.  Above shots both with M glass 50 and 90.  I found manual focus a bit of a faff if I'm honest, but then I never felt I committed to the camera, probably just didn't give it enough time.  Absolutely hated the multi function bar thing that I tried to set up for magnify when using manual focus, I just gave up and disabled it in the end.  

I regularly use M lenses on the CL, so easy, sure it would be the same with an SL.  Next time I get an itch for an autofocus FF camera I think it will have to be the SL.

 

 

[bags27]

19 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Sure I must have posted something here on the forum.  I had the EOS R for a couple of months and used several R and M lenses.  I am no pixel peeper or brick wall shooter and to me IQ was  fine, couple of examples below, even given the thicker sensor glass.  I still had some Canon glass, 70-300L, 50mm 1.2L, and I got the camera with the RF 24-105 and the EF adaptor.    AF was very fast and indeed accurate with all of the Canon lenses.

I probably don't have to say more than I sold the camera on... I think I have been spoiled with simple menu's, minimal controls, excellent build quality that comes with a Leica,  and truthfully my CL and M10 do everything well enough for me.  

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Even on this Leica site, those are fairly amazing. Would you let us know the camera and lens of these? Thanks!

[Boojay]

20 minutes ago, bags27 said:

Even on this Leica site, those are fairly amazing. Would you let us know the camera and lens of these? Thanks!

Thank you, the camera was Canon EOS R, first image with  Summilux 50mm 1.4 M, second image with 90mm Summicron M, using a cheap chinese Leica M to Eos R adaptor.

 

Edited February 8 by Boojay

[Chaemono]

Am 8.2.2019 um 14:18 schrieb sillbeers15:

The only thing I am keen to find out is the S1/S1R AF-C tracking capability. I do not expect it to be the best AF tracking in the industry but looking forward to a useable and fairly accurate tracking when compared to the A9, Z7 & other current FF mirrorless cameras especially from the decent AF tracking reviews of G9.

The guy in the video review below seems to be very impressed with the AF-C tracking of surfers in the water because of the AI that Panasonic implemented. The nearest eye is prioritized first, then the face, and if the camera can't detect either then it focuses on the body. He was always able to track the body at least he's saying around 23:00 (you'll have to practice some German to understand it). The focus system has also been trained to recognize birds, cats, and 'flying' dogs (I see someone switching back to the L-mount system from the α9 😁). Unfortunately for you no Formula 1 cars are mentioned nor are racehorses (unfortunately for me, I guess). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCD9tEKS00

 

[sillbeers15]

13 hours ago, Chaemono said:

The guy in the video review below seems to be very impressed with the AF-C tracking of surfers in the water because of the AI that Panasonic implemented. The nearest eye is prioritized first, then the face, and if the camera can't detect either then it focuses on the body. He was always able to track the body at least he's saying around 23:00 (you'll have to practice some German to understand it). The focus system has also been trained to recognize birds, cats, and 'flying' dogs (I see someone switching back to the L-mount system from the α9 😁). Unfortunately for you no Formula 1 cars are mentioned nor are racehorses (unfortunately for me, I guess). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCD9tEKS00

 

Saw that as a useful feature. Some other Video AF tracking comparison with Z7 by Richard Wong on YouTube showed slower focus tracking changeover on preproduction firmware 0.7. Otherwise AF tracking looks promising. Hopefully 1.0 firmware on Production will sort out matters.

[Chaemono]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15:

Saw that as a useful feature. Some other Video AF tracking comparison with Z7 by Richard Wong on YouTube showed slower focus tracking changeover on preproduction firmware 0.7. Otherwise AF tracking looks promising. Hopefully 1.0 firmware on Production will sort out matters.

In theory, the more they train the software the better the pattern recognition. Then it’s up to algorithms/processor speed/AF motor to try to track them with the lens, I guess. 

[mmradman]

O boy, had a look on camerasize.com, forthcoming Panasonic is real heavyweight, hopefully Leica can do better.

http://j.mp/2WXf1VT

Also compared Z7 with SL now this is some revelation.

http://j.mp/2MIBVOP

 

 

[Ingo]

It seems that Panasonic did a great job when it comes to balancing the body and the lenses. 
Personally I prefer a bigger body that fits in my hands than to add a handgrip or (in case of SL) a RRS plate so that I can hold it a whole workday. 

[thighslapper]

11 hours ago, mmradman said:

O boy, had a look on camerasize.com, forthcoming Panasonic is real heavyweight, hopefully Leica can do better.

http://j.mp/2WXf1VT

Also compared Z7 with SL now this is some revelation.

http://j.mp/2MIBVOP

Looking at the SL and SR1 comparisons they actually look suspiciously similar .... which does make me wonder about just how close the Leica/Panasonic co-operation is going to be .......

The ultimate size and shape of a camera body is dictated by what you are trying to squeeze into it ...... and you could easily be tempted to speculate that the SL2 will be 80% the same as the Panasonic internally with just some minor variations to achieve consistency with the SL1.......

[helged]

7 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Looking at the SL and SR1 comparisons they actually look suspiciously similar .... which does make me wonder about just how close the Leica/Panasonic co-operation is going to be .......

The ultimate size and shape of a camera body is dictated by what you are trying to squeeze into it ...... and you could easily be tempted to speculate that the SL2 will be 80% the same as the Panasonic internally with just some minor variations to achieve consistency with the SL1.......

+that SL2 might have micro-lenses on the sensor to facilitate use of wide M-lenses, something that S1R might not have (remains to be seen, obviuosly). Economically, it makes sense that Panasonic and Leica shares the sensor (larger volume, lower cost, cooperation regarding calibration, repair, etc.), although the fabrication of a sensor with/without specifically designed micro-lenses seems quite different for one (=me) having limited insight into sensor fabrication. The S1R looks promising - implying quite some upgrades to the SL2 as well.

[mmradman]

I can’t find anyone mentioning what is the raw format used by Panasonic S1/R.   In the past Leica compact clones used Panasonic raw format instead of own DNG.

[bags27]

9 hours ago, helged said:

+that SL2 might have micro-lenses on the sensor to facilitate use of wide M-lenses, something that S1R might not have (remains to be seen, obviuosly). Economically, it makes sense that Panasonic and Leica shares the sensor (larger volume, lower cost, cooperation regarding calibration, repair, etc.), although the fabrication of a sensor with/without specifically designed micro-lenses seems quite different for one (=me) having limited insight into sensor fabrication. The S1R looks promising - implying quite some upgrades to the SL2 as well.

I'm way out of my league here, but I'm thinking that, even if they have the exact same architecture for the sensor/micro-lenses, the processor is going to be different. I'd imagine we'll see in the SL2 and Q2  a Maestro III processor and that at the very least the colors produced by it will be unique to Leica.