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With MA, M7 or M6. Will I make better photos than with IIIf or IIIg ?.


Dopaco

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As a beginner in analog and having asked this question in other forums with insastifecho results, he repeats it in this forum:

 

To start with the analog, I bought a Leica IIIf and recently a IIIg and a photometer. With these tools and according to my criteria, I obtained moderately acceptable results and now is when the next question arises.

 

If I buy an MA, M7 or M6 and with the same objectives ... Do you think I can make better pictures?

 


Before making any other new investment, I would like to know vustras opinon.

 

I await your wise advice and recommendations.

 

Thank you very much.


 

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Guest Nowhereman

Not sure why you think that an M-camera would improve your photography. It seems to me that the only reasons to change to an M-camera would be if you wanted to shoot with lenses that you cannot use on LTM cameras, or if you wanted to have the viewfinder and rangefinder in one window, but a lot of people use an external viewfinder, say, for 21mm lenses on M-cameras. It's the photographer that makes the pictures, not the camera...

 

I love the IIIg and like the IIIf as well.

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If I buy an M-A, M6, or M7, and with the same lenses — do you think I can make better pictures [than with Leica IIIf or IIIg]?

 

 

In theory — depends. In real life, most likely not.

 

Compared to the screw-mount Leica models, the modern Leica M cameras are more comfortable to use (easier film loading, single eye-piece for focusing and framing, no accessory finders required for 28 - 135 mm lenses, in-camera metering with M6, M7, M-P). Also, they offer access to the latest and best M lenses. These factors may or may not affect your ability to come up with better pictures. But in real life, all these things aren't that significant. The most important factors are your eye, your dedication, and your practice in using the camera.

 

So, if you are less than happy with your pictures then you need to practice more. Switching to a different camera model won't make much of a difference. Provided your old screw-mount Leicas are in good shape technically, they are capable of the same image quality as any modern film Leica M.

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Dopaco, the advice you have already received is good, and the short answer to your question is “no” - just replacing a screw body with an M body almost certainly won’t make any difference.

 

Light, subject-matter, choice of lenses, choice of film, experience, even luck, and especially *you* - these are the factors that have much more influence on what makes a “better” picture...far more than just a camera body.

 

That said, you might want to scratch that itch and try an M body. You might find it more enjoyable to use than a screwmount. Your greater enjoyment might then lead you to spend more time building your skills. But make no mistake, if you end up with better photographs, some months or years from now, it won’t be because of the new body, but because of you.

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Especially if you wear glasses the viewfinder of the M bodies gives you a much better "view" of the scene you will shoot. You also see the area outside of the frame lines, making it easier to select the best framing of the subject. And there is the speed of operation to quickly advance and take a second shot - which can be helpful in people pictures where they tend to relax a bit after the shutter snaps.

When the M3 first came out, Leitz had an advertisement that was a contact sheet of 36 frames of a portrait session, showing the speed of operation to catch changing expressisons, etc.

I use several ltm bodies, including early Canons with the tiniest eyepiece (about a 1/16" window) which are a real challenge to use with glasses. The IIIf is much better in this regard, and the IIIg another step up, but they all make me appreciate the ease of use of the M body viewfinders.

That can yield better pictures in some situations.

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If your old camera is working properly, the answer is no you won't make "better" pictures with a newer one. However, you will have a wider selection of lenses, which could change the character of your pictures, but not necessarily make them better. And by the way, the proper use of the term is film photography rather than analogue to distinguish it from digital photography. What makes better pictures for most people is practice, practice, practice.

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Guest Nowhereman
Especially if you wear glasses the viewfinder of the M bodies gives you a much better "view" of the scene you will shoot. You also see the area outside of the frame lines, making it easier to select the best framing of the subject...

 

Actually, the IIIg viewfinder shows an area outside the frame as well, when using a 50mm or 90mm lens.

 

An advantage for some people of the IIIx cameras is their small size: when using a collapse lens these cameras can easily fit into a pocket. Come to think of it, if I were shooting film exclusively, I'd be tempted to get a IIIg with a collapsible 50mm lens.

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Actually, the IIIg viewfinder shows an area outside the frame as well, when using a 50mm or 90mm lens.

 

An advantage for some people of the IIIx cameras is their small size: when using a collapse lens these cameras can easily fit into a pocket. Come to think of it, if I were shooting film exclusively, I'd be tempted to get a IIIg with a collapsible 50mm lens.

Yes, I use a IIIg with a 50 2.8 collapsible Elmar, which was introduced at the same time as the IIIg, and it does give a better view than the IIIf. It also has "corners" in the VF for a 90mm view. While I do appreciate the smaller size (especially of a 1930s III), I still prefer working with an M2 VF since I wear glasses full time.

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To start with the analog, I bought a Leica IIIf and recently a IIIg and a photometer. With these tools and according to my criteria, I obtained moderately acceptable results and now is when the next question arises.

 
If I buy an MA, M7 or M6 and with the same objectives ... Do you think I can make better pictures?
Before making any other new investment, I would like to know vustras opinon.
I await your wise advice and recommendations.

 

In my experience the M cameras have better viewfinder/rangefinders which makes a big difference to me. Of course film loading is also faster, more convenient. I really do like the IIIG with Leicavit for handling, and use an external viewfinder, but the M wins.

Edited by pico
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Thank you all for your comments.

Now I have the clearest ideas and, as you advise, the main thing is to practice and practice.

 

Leica IIIF and IIIG, for the moment I think they work correctly, IIIG incorporates a better viewer but the IIIF with external viewer goes well.

 

I also have a Leica Digital M8, which helps me practice with the rangefinder.

 

The new Leica M lenses, I find very expensive for what I see offer, comparing them with other images taken with much cheaper old objectives.

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Yes, I use a IIIg with a 50 2.8 collapsible Elmar, which was introduced at the same time as the IIIg, and it does give a better view than the IIIf. It also has "corners" in the VF for a 90mm view. While I do appreciate the smaller size (especially of a 1930s III), I still prefer working with an M2 VF since I wear glasses full time.

 

I would not mind buying Elmar f2.8 50mm M39. On Ebay there are several prices. From € 300 to € 900.
What would be a good price?
Do you know any site that can be bought with a certain guarantee?
 
Thank you.
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Some ebay sellers are from camera stores (even Leica dealers) and will state any warranty or return period allowed.

The 2.8 Elmar ltm can be a very nice lens, but some develop a haze on an internal lens surface that can not be completely cleaned, although a good technician can clear most of it. The main effect of any haze is to reduce contrast. The ltm collapsible Summicron can also develop such a haze.

I have 2 ltm Elmar lenses, and one is better than the other, as can be expected. Look for a seller that will allow "no fault" returns if you are not satisfied for any reason. Some may offer a 2-week period to return for no reason.

 

By the way, the Elmar-M 2.8 is a different lens than the original Elmar 2.8 (available in both ltm and M mount). The Elmar-M is only in M mount, and is a much better performer.

Edited by TomB_tx
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In good light, there is no "better" camera/lens combo in the world than a III(pick your letter) and a 28mm summaron with an external VF.    Zone focused and with the bright VF insight, it is the fastest camera in the world.  The only downside is, as Pico says, the loading of the film, but this isn't really a substantive problem assuming you aren't a full-time photojournalist.  I think that the only reason to move to the M system is the use the M glass, most of which is superior to the LTM lenses from a pure engineering perspective.

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I think everyone brought up great points already, but also you have to take into consideration that some camera gear just makes you feel more comfortable and inspires more confidence with creating photos. Arguably the "worst" camera in the world could help someone produce an amazing photo, and someone with a Leica M10 could produce a "bad" photo. Again it all comes down to feeling, and if your IIIf or IIIg make you feel comfortable, keep them and practice! 

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My last minor comment: The results of some 'old glass' are highly respected for good reasons. Our challenge is to find such lenses in good condition.

 

In a separate thread I can point to odd M-mount lenses which have unconventional outcomes.

 

Best of luck! Life is to experiment, for better or worse, enjoy.

Edited by pico
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In my small experience with my one Leica M3, the newer lenses make better, brighter, more contrasty, and more highly focused photos than older lenses.  If this is what you think of by "better," then a camera that can mount newer lenses may just make better pictures.  Since the M family of cameras can mount more "newer" lenses, then the M family may just make better pictures.

 

Or...

 

If you like the unique look of classic Leica lenses and the special combination of clarity, softer focus, and "Leica glow" that comes more from lenses formulated decades ago, then either the Leica III series or the M family of cameras may make better photos, depending on how you define your judgment of "better" and on which lenses you use with your camera.

 

Keep in mind I have only one Leica camera, but I have four lenses made from 1952 through 1969.  I also have two Panasonic Lumix cameras with Leica zoom lenses made in the last 15 years.  I have only these few data points to draw my own conclusions, but it is pretty clear even from my own photos that each lens is excellent in different ways.  The Summicron 5cm is a great "all-rounder" and gives lovely bokeh; the old Elmar 9cm is a very flattering portrait lens, but it is really useful for me in daylight or well-lit indoor shots; the newer Tele-Elmar 135mm is by far the sharpest and contrastiest of my M3's lenses, and it does really excellent daylight shots with excellent detail and contrast; the Lumix FZ20's Vario-Elmarit zoom and the LX3's Vario-Summicron zoom are really crisp, especially in bright conditions, but some of that may be the digital sharpening going on in the camera.

 

Don't take my word for it... there are lots of lens and camera reviews on the internet to study.  Also, some camera shops will let you rent cameras or lenses, so you can try them out for yourself.  Some of the members of this forum have decades of experience with many cameras and lenses, and so you asked your question in the right place.  Let us know what you decide, and what you are looking for in your "best" camera and lens.

 

Scott

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