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User Manual for 250FF - PDF or JPEG scan fine


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Has anyone got a copy of the manual for the 250FF, where they could let me have a copy scan either PDF or JPEG. I am now the proud owner of a 250FF, which is on its way to me by UPS. I know I can buy a new copy of the Hove Books reprint of the Leica manual for the Standard, IIIa and 250 but I believe there was a manual just for the 250FF. What I don't know is if that was in German and the multi camera manual was a publication by Leica, Mortimer Street, London for non-German speakers. 

 

Yet another item to add to my ever lengthening list for CLA this autumn with Alan Starkie. I will get the plating on the wind on knob changed to nickel. I don't know if they can plate in aged looking nickel, as I have recently had a vintage Eclipse Red Ring razor re-plated in nickel and it is as bright as chrome, at least at the moment. 

 

Wilson

 

 

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Wow! Regardless of knowing press photographers during the days of film,

not one used a long roll camera because our Versamat processors did not perform

well with extra long rolls, and nobody looked forward to hand processing it.

 

Well, so far you have two exotic long roll cameras. Have you had any luck

finding processing equipment?

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I don't have a specific 250 FF manual, but I have the Hove Book that you have mentioned and probably some III manuals from the 1930s which also cover the 250. There are also some pieces in Matheson's book 'The Leica Way' which cover the 250 and the tricky business of loading and winding film. I will scan a few pieces and send them to you by PM.

 

Personally, I would not have nickel redone, although I have a suspicion that a few items in my collection have been redone before they arrived with me. Each to his own etc.

 

William

Edited by willeica
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Wow! Regardless of knowing press photographers during the days of film,

not one used a long roll camera because our Versamat processors did not perform

well with extra long rolls, and nobody looked forward to hand processing it.

 

Well, so far you have two exotic long roll cameras. Have you had any luck

finding processing equipment?

 

Jac, 

 

I have a processor in Germany who will develop the 70mm film from my Combat Graflex in 2 x 7.5 foot lengths. The long lengths of 35mm are much easier. You just send them to a cine film processor. I don't see me using this camera a whole lot but I do get two cassettes with it and I may buy one or two more. 

 

I think the chrome has to be stripped off before going back to nickel, with cold dilute hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid. 

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw
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I don't have a specific 250 FF manual, but I have the Hove Book that you have mentioned and probably some III manuals from the 1930s which also cover the 250. There are also some pieces in Matheson's book 'The Leica Way' which cover the 250 and the tricky business of loading and winding film. I will scan a few pieces and send them to you by PM.

 

Personally, I would not have nickel redone, although I have a suspicion that a few items in my collection have been redone before they arrived with me. Each to his own etc.

 

William

William, 

 

I do have the Andrew Matheson book (a very smelly copy that must have sat in a darkroom for 30 years) but it does not have a great deal to say. It does give you a useful tip not to fix the end into the feed cassette too tightly, as it has to be completely wound out into the receiver cassette at the end of the film. As I already use a cassette to cassette camera, the 70mm film Combat Graphic, I do at least have some experience. 

 

I really don't like the chrome wind on knob on a nickel fittings camera, so I will get something done about it. I will not get the lovely patina original nickel redone and I am not going to have the camera repainted. 

 

Wilson

 

PS I have just ordered from Steyning books, their manual, which I thought I already had but I can't find it and I have all my Leica library in France. I had hoped the Morgan & Lester might cover it but other than saying the 250 exists, has nothing further. 

Edited by wlaidlaw
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William, 

 

I do have the Andrew Matheson book (a very smelly copy that must have sat in a darkroom for 30 years) but it does not have a great deal to say. It does give you a useful tip not to fix the end into the feed cassette too tightly, as it has to be completely wound out into the receiver cassette at the end of the film. As I already use a cassette to cassette camera, the 70mm film Combat Graphic, I do at least have some experience. 

 

I really don't like the chrome wind on knob on a nickel fittings camera, so I will get something done about it. I will not get the lovely patina original nickel redone and I am not going to have the camera repainted. 

 

Wilson

 

Thanks Wilson. I agree that a chrome knob should be replaced or redone. I presume that you have seen the point on page 146 of Matheson where he said that a Leitz mechanical winder is the only satisfactory way of winding a 33 feet length of film on to a Leitz (250) spool. 

 

I have both 1935 and 1937 manuals for the IIIa and both contain a special section for the 250FF. I suspect that this was how Leica dealt with the matter in the 1930s rather than issuing a specific 250 FF manual. I will send you both 250 FF sections even though I suspect they are the same. The 1935 manual content is what appears in the Hove book.

 

William

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In the June 1934 brochure for the FF, there is a section titled: Instructions for use.  In addition, another flyer was added as an insert to this brochure. titled "Enclosure Sheet for 7454 ( the brochure)", there is a discussion of properly tightening the film with the "new" flat disc on top of the film knob. I believe these instruction were the main information from Leitz, as I have never another separate dedicated instruction manual.  They may have thought that only the issue of film handling was necessary beyond the model III.

I expect you already have these, if not try to enlarge, or PM and I can send better copies.

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In the June 1934 brochure for the FF, there is a section titled: Instructions for use.  In addition, another flyer was added as an insert to this brochure. titled "Enclosure Sheet for 7454 ( the brochure)", there is a discussion of properly tightening the film with the "new" flat disc on top of the film knob. I believe these instruction were the main information from Leitz, as I have never another separate dedicated instruction manual.  They may have thought that only the issue of film handling was necessary beyond the model III.

I expect you already have these, if not try to enlarge, or PM and I can send better copies.

 

 

Alan, 

 

Many thanks for that information. I always forget to look in James Lager's book and there were the pages you illustrate above. There is another interesting photo in that book, dating from 1940 of a 250GG with 200 Telyt mounted on a TZOON (Visoflex I/PLOOT replacement) extension tube and SFTOO finder. That set up must have been designed, always to be used at infinity, as it would have been a bit difficult to focus, unless you were very good at estimating distances or carrying a military spec rangefinder. I hoped my Visoflex II might fit on the 250FF but I am not sure there is enough space between the film compartments to screw it on. 

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw
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In the June 1934 brochure for the FF, there is a section titled: Instructions for use.  In addition, another flyer was added as an insert to this brochure. titled "Enclosure Sheet for 7454 ( the brochure)", there is a discussion of properly tightening the film with the "new" flat disc on top of the film knob. I believe these instruction were the main information from Leitz, as I have never another separate dedicated instruction manual.  They may have thought that only the issue of film handling was necessary beyond the model III.

I expect you already have these, if not try to enlarge, or PM and I can send better copies.

attachicon.gifIMG_0746.jpg

 

This seems to confirm what I told Wilson. I have Leica IIIa manuals from 1935 and 1937 and both of them contain a few pages relevant to the FF, which are pretty much like the material in the brochure shown above with the same illustrations etc. I don't believe that there was a separate manual for the FF. I have sent Wilson the 1935 and 1937 material. There is also material in Matheson's 'The Leica Way' book relating to the FF, but it is quite scattered throughout the book requiring use of the index at the back.

 

William

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With the GG and FF there is not such a problem as one might imagine with processing long strips of film.  There are a couple of easy ways to obtain 36-frame long segments that will fit into a standard 35mm processing tank.

 

1)  Every 36 frames, wind two frames, set camera to Bulb, and with the lens off and shutter open place a thin bit of scotch tape directly on the film surface. Then proceed as normal and repeat 36 frames later.  The bits of tape can easily be felt in the darkroom, and the film cut into 36-frame segments.

 

Or:

 

2)  Every 36 frames, open the camera and remove the take up cassette.  This can be done in daylight, of course, because both cassettes will close automatically upon opening the bottom plate.  Use a spare take-up cassette (some are available now at Red Dot, I believe) to reload the camera and proceed as normal to repeat 36 frames later.

 

It does give you a useful tip not to fix the end into the feed cassette too tightly, as it has to be completely wound out into the receiver cassette at the end of the film. 

 

Because both cassettes are automatically closed and removable in daylight, it seems to me there isn't such an issue here as the book makes out.  At worst, three or four frames at the end of the 250-frame roll will be lost if the roll is not fully wound into the receiver cassette.  If they must be saved, then a changing bag or darkroom will solve the problem.

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With the GG and FF there is not such a problem as one might imagine with processing long strips of film.  There are a couple of easy ways to obtain 36-frame long segments that will fit into a standard 35mm processing tank.

 

1)  Every 36 frames, wind two frames, set camera to Bulb, and with the lens off and shutter open place a thin bit of scotch tape directly on the film surface. Then proceed as normal and repeat 36 frames later.  The bits of tape can easily be felt in the darkroom, and the film cut into 36-frame segments.

 

Or:

 

2)  Every 36 frames, open the camera and remove the take up cassette.  This can be done in daylight, of course, because both cassettes will close automatically upon opening the bottom plate.  Use a spare take-up cassette (some are available now at Red Dot, I believe) to reload the camera and proceed as normal to repeat 36 frames later.

 

 

Because both cassettes are automatically closed and removable in daylight, it seems to me there isn't such an issue here as the book makes out.  At worst, three or four frames at the end of the 250-frame roll will be lost if the roll is not fully wound into the receiver cassette.  If they must be saved, then a changing bag or darkroom will solve the problem.

 

I don't think there will be as big a problem in getting 10m lengths of film processed, as I have had in getting 5m lengths of 70mm film. Strangely colour is far easier than B&W. I have two people who will process the 70mm film in colour positive (if only it was available - I have only two rolls of very outdated 70mm Ektachrome left, against plenty of B&W Rollei 400S) in the UK. For B&W I have to go to Germany and even there it is cut into 2 x 2.5m lengths. There are plenty of companies in the UK who will process either C41 or E6 10m lengths of 35mm as the film industry use similar for exposure and framing tests. A one hour service if I needed it. 

 

Wilson

 

PS Thanks for the tip that Ivor had a couple of KOOBF cassettes at very reasonable price of £125 for the pair. I have bought those. 

Edited by wlaidlaw
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You can't fit a Visoflex II onto a 250 Reporter. There is insufficient room between the film chambers to screw it on - I just tried. I suppose a PLOOT might fit but even that is a bit doubtful. That may be why in James Lager's book, a 250 is pictured with a TZOON extension tube or PLOOT replacement, with a 200mm Telyt and SFTOO viewfinder. I suppose that would make sense as an aerial camera set up. 

 

Wilson

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  • 3 months later...
2 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Wilson, If you are still seeking details of the Leica 250 trimming plate, Lot 23 in following link illustrates same 

 http://www.westlicht-auction.com/fileadmin/kataloge/leica100.pdf

Regards

dunk 

Thanks Dunk, I had found those photos, then used known measurements to extrapolate to the others to end up with the drawing below. 

Wilson

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Wilson

If you speak German

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JC, many thanks. Luckily the English Language version of that is published in one of Jim Lager's books that I have. My German which is adequate for getting around, chatting to folks and ordering from restaurant menus, would be stretched beyond its limit with the 250 instructions. My 250 is currently with Malcolm Taylor, who is back to work after his illness last year. He tells me it is in reasonable condition other than a very worn gear and broken spring in the wind on mechanism, which he is replacing and the shutter being wrongly regulated. 

Wilson

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2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

JC, many thanks. Luckily the English Language version of that is published in one of Jim Lager's books that I have. My German which is adequate for getting around, chatting to folks and ordering from restaurant menus, would be stretched beyond its limit with the 250 instructions. My 250 is currently with Malcolm Taylor, who is back to work after his illness last year. He tells me it is in reasonable condition other than a very worn gear and broken spring in the wind on mechanism, which he is replacing and the shutter being wrongly regulated. 

Wilson

I think that I sent you the instructions in English for the 250, such as they are, some time ago. Matheson's book, which you have, also has some details.

William

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11 minutes ago, willeica said:

I think that I sent you the instructions in English for the 250, such as they are, some time ago. Matheson's book, which you have, also has some details.

William

William you did indeed send me the instructions but while they were en route to me, I also had a copy of the Lager book also on its way to me. They show the full Leica leaflet for the 250. The edition of the Matheson book I have, doesn't have a lot on the 250 and it is spread over different, quite far apart pages. When Malcolm finishes my 250, as he probably knows more about them than any other living person (at one point he had 16 of them in for service or repair), I may go up to collect it from Malcolm when finished and get a lesson on trimming the film for it (not as easy as one might think and general operation. I think Malcolm has a darkroom and I will take a roll of bulk FP3 up with me and load three KOOBF cassettes (750 images should keep me going for a while). 

Wilson

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