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Medium Format Decisions


Acekerman

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Kparseg,  The S007 and other M cameras and lenses at Popflash and other Leica dealers are known as "Q" products.  These are refurbished by Leica Germany to like-new condition.  Many are former demos products that undergo total refurbishment and boxed in "white" boxes vs the standard factory new boxes that are beige in color.  Inside the white outer box are the standard Leica silver product boxes.  This is how you tell them a part plus the difference in the Leica warranty and of course the price.  The "Q" products often come with 1 year Leica warranty and factory new via say for example, Leica USA in NJ are 3 year Leica warranty for say M lenses.  I have purchased a good number of Leica S, SL and M "Q" products via my Leica dealer in California when I am there.  The S007 if a "Q", is most excellent value for money.  (Remember Photokina is almost here and S products to include "Q" will drop in value/price)   Same goes for Leica Miami with Josh and their refurbished/recalibrated previously owned Leica products.  The last "Q" S007 I purchased from Popflash, I drove to owners home as I was in the local area at the time in Thousand Oaks, CA and picked it up.  The camera was essentially new and I saved almost $11K.   IMO based on my experience with Leica "Q" products, you won't go wrong.  Last, you can ask any Leica dealer or authorized Leica dealer to call Leica USA in NJ and see if they have a "Q" product available or you can request one if it comes available.  All you have to do is, ask.   r/ Mark

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BigBabyEarl,  I don't know if you are in a hurry for a S006 or S007, but if you can hold off another month, you will see a good number of S006 and 007s for sale to include "Q"s for the same price or lower.   It always happens with Photokina nearly here.  You might save another $1,000 on the item in your Post #43 based on my experience.  Same goes for S "Q" lenses.  I would not buy any S006 via the internet unless it has the documentation proving the sensor was replaced.  IMO, the S006 for $6600 in your post #43 is worth another $1000 off or more.   r/ Mark

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There is a CPO S006 with one year warranty at NJ for $6600

 

Call Josh . . . he's got my old 006 for sale. It is like-new condition and the sensor has been replaced.  He is asking $4250.  

There are plenty of 006s to be found.  

Rob

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KParseg:

If you become serious, call Josh @ Leica Miami. He is very good at sourcing Leica. 

Rob

I actually got both S2 and S006 from him, and he was a very nice person to deal with. Let's see what's going to happen during September and if a new S comes out. 

 

Also, it seems like the new 150MP sensor is coming with the new P1 soon. Not that I'm buying it but it'd be interesting to see the direction that MF manufacturers are going to take. 

 

But thanks for the suggestions. I'm learning something new from you guys every day. 

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Kparseg,  The S007 and other M cameras and lenses at Popflash and other Leica dealers are known as "Q" products.  These are refurbished by Leica Germany to like-new condition.  Many are former demos products that undergo total refurbishment and boxed in "white" boxes vs the standard factory new boxes that are beige in color.  Inside the white outer box are the standard Leica silver product boxes.  This is how you tell them a part plus the difference in the Leica warranty and of course the price.  The "Q" products often come with 1 year Leica warranty and factory new via say for example, Leica USA in NJ are 3 year Leica warranty for say M lenses.  I have purchased a good number of Leica S, SL and M "Q" products via my Leica dealer in California when I am there.  The S007 if a "Q", is most excellent value for money.  (Remember Photokina is almost here and S products to include "Q" will drop in value/price)   Same goes for Leica Miami with Josh and their refurbished/recalibrated previously owned Leica products.  The last "Q" S007 I purchased from Popflash, I drove to owners home as I was in the local area at the time in Thousand Oaks, CA and picked it up.  The camera was essentially new and I saved almost $11K.   IMO based on my experience with Leica "Q" products, you won't go wrong.  Last, you can ask any Leica dealer or authorized Leica dealer to call Leica USA in NJ and see if they have a "Q" product available or you can request one if it comes available.  All you have to do is, ask.   r/ Mark

I can't believe it but I've never heard of this website. I'm not sure how it could happen. Thanks for suggestions. 

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The 'used' deals on S are very, very good. My beloved S006 was purchase fro Leica Miami for an acceptable cost. Actually, some of the lowest priced Leica gear I have, relatively speaking. And I will not smell the S006, its such a wonderful machine....

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I can't believe it but I've never heard of this website. I'm not sure how it could happen. Thanks for suggestions.

I mentioned Popflash earlier, with $9k off a new S007 (called used mint, but new). Tony Rose, the owner, is a good guy and knows the S system well. Alex is another good contact. They offer similar deals on many other Leica products.

 

Popflash also offers 80% return on consignment sales, which typically move fast with their online advertising. It used to be 85% for the first 2 weeks after list, but now is a flat scale.

 

There are also other dealers who have access to or are willing to make deals, but one has to be resourceful and build relationships.

 

Jeff

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X1D is a beautiful tool but in its first version has software bugs. Advantage of a Hasselblad is the leaf shutter lenses which don’t limit flash sync speeds. Leica S also has its share of problems but hopefully next version which is due anytime now will be a trouble free one with probably a 50 MP sensor. X1D kit is now costing $14000 with 3 lenses. Leica S3 body itself may be around $25000

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$10,888 for a new one with warranty at Popflash. They have to call it used mint to discount, but it’s unused...

 

https://www.popflash.com/10804FF

 

Jeff

Got my Q from popflash earlier this year. "Demo=New."

Got my M9 and S 006 from Leica Miami, designated as "certified." Looked new to me.

Got my 70mm and C adapter from Leica Soho  -  both "demo" - with significant savings. Actually, the adapter did not work, so they sent me a new one.

There are ways to save money. But, as stated above, it can take some leg work. But it is worth spending a bit more, if necessary, to buy from a Leica store. As non-responsive as the Leica mother ship may be at times, I have found Leica Miami to be exceptional after the sale. I send them the gear, and they deal with Germany. No stress.

David

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Kparseg,  The S007 and other M cameras and lenses at Popflash and other Leica dealers are known as "Q" products.  These are refurbished by Leica Germany to like-new condition.  Many are former demos products that undergo total refurbishment and boxed in "white" boxes vs the standard factory new boxes that are beige in color.  Inside the white outer box are the standard Leica silver product boxes. 

 

I have a feeling that all my S lenses were in white outer boxes, even the stuff that was bought brand new.  They are currently packed away so cannot check.

 

john

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John McMaster & Peterv,   I hope you didn't get the wrong impression from my post #42 to Kparseg.  In the USA, when Popflash lists a Leica product as Near-Mint in the description with very high scale ratings of say, 9.92 etc, these would be "Q" products.  They can not list the "Q" products as new. Popflash and others like B&H Photo clearly list the items as "Near-Mint or White box", meaning the items are refurbished by the manufacturer.  In the USA, the "Q" are simply refurbished by Leica and come in white outer boxes with the standard silver/black product box inside with the item.  New Leica products come in beige/tan boxes.  With Leica Q products the warranty is different and prices are reduced.  Certainly, there is nothing wrong with products.  Canon does the same thing with "white" box refurbished products.  I have bought new and Q Leica products and usually not had a problem with either new or Q type products.  Personally, I find the Leica "Q" products are good deals and I buy them from both Popflash and my favorite Leica dealer in California when I am there.  r/ Mark

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  • 2 weeks later...

Life long Leica M shooter but Im in love with Medium format at this point. With falling used Leica S prices especially with the S3 on the horizon I've been contemplating at a used Leica S. I love the rendering of the CCD sensor 006 but wonder about relibility of the sensor. Theres the 007 which is twice the cost for the money I could get a newer Hasselblad x1d for the investment. (The Fuji doesn't do it for me rendering wise). Wondering what folks have experience with 006, 007 and Hasselblad x1d interns of daily carry and shooting of portraits and landscape. Looking for a an All rounder really. Also How reliable are the Leica S lenses? or would it be prudent to pursue the SL at this point to stay? Thanks for any input.

 

Best

 

Brian

What type of photography are you planning on for this purchase? If you can stay below ISO 800, the S006 may be a good way to go if you want to stick with Leica as long as it has had its sensor replaced. If you can’t work at lower gain, then the noise characteristics and relatively limited dynamic range of the 006 would make it a bad choice.

 

I own the X1D and several of the lenses so I can speak to that camera’s strengths and weaknesses. First, if you want a compact body and lenses, the X1D is unmatched. The ergonomics and the user interface are also superb. Image quality is fantastic even at high ISO’s. It has more resolution than the current batch of Leicas and that difference shows in larger prints. The lens quality—optical quality, specifically—is on a par with the S lenses, but the range of choices is still fairly limited and so far they are all fairly slow. That’s mostly a byproduct of the leaf shutters used. The EVF is mediocre by current standards but it does the job well enough for anything where you are likely to choose a medium format camera. Many of the bugs from the initial release have been addressed, but there are still some “quirks”:

 

- Slow to turn on (8s), but you can leave it in sleep mode for hours at a time, and that’s quick to “wake up”

- AF is slow, but very accurate, and you aren’t stuck with “focus and recompose” as with the Leicas

- Flat bladed diaphragms result in hexagonal “bokeh balls” when not used wide open; It’s fine wide open, though

- Battery life is quite poor

- Focus peeking is excellent—way above average—and makes fairly quick manual focus a breeze

- Focus magnification allows extremely precise manual focus if required

- No available cable release; you are stuck with software and an iPhone

- Uses the Nikon flash protocols which is brilliant

- Touch screen use is fantastic

- There is some shutter lag, but it’s not bad enough to make portraits difficult (lots of online reviews get this wrong assuming that the exposure is at the third “click” not the second)

- 300ms download time on the Sony chip means low frames per second and long shutter blackout

 

End result? The X1D is a great choice for landscapes especially if you care about weight. It’s also a solid choice for studio work as long as you don’t need a cable release (tethering is fine). It’s also a solid choice for portrait work, either in the studio or in the field, but it’s certainly not as responsive a camera as the SL. Still, it’s fast enough that I would have no qualms recommending it for portraits. Frankly, the blackout is probably the most serious issue for this use. It’s also a solid choice for astrophotography. The leaf shutter allows you to handhold it at fairly slow shutter speeds compared with, for example, an S007, but I’d still stick with the guideline of 1/2x the focal length if you really want to see the benefits of the 50 megapixel sensor. The image quality is fantastic and the prints I have been able to make are stunning.

 

Avoid this camera (and any current medium format) for action, things requiring image stabilization, high frame rates, etcetera. Street photography would be a stretch but is possible. Something like a CL would be a much better choice, though.

 

Of the current Leicas, the SL is quite simply the most versatile. Fantastic EVF. Excellent (though bulky) lenses. Good image stabilization. Image quality that is as good as almost any 24 megapixel camera. Able to take M glass as well as SL and S lenses. If you wanted something for “general use” and wanted a big chip, that’s the way I would go. If you really want medium format, I like X1D, but can understand people making other choices.

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