mmradman Posted August 23, 2018 Share #41 Posted August 23, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Isn't the answer that the CCD sensor does not provide live view, so the shutter re-cocked, leaving the sensor covered. The CMOS cameras (M240 & M10) have live view, so the exposure is different - shutter closes, exposure, then reopens to re-establish live view. It's a more complicated and completely different process. I doubt the improvement is more than shock absorbers, or slightly different muffling. True, if it were true ... But, for those who do care about these things, you get: traditional script top deck and no red dot (I'm not particularly fond of the red dot) gorilla glass (nice to have) quieter shutter (not too concerned) touch screen (useful) return of the internal level (good, but not entirely accurate) All for a $700.00 premium. Doesn't seem too bad to me. I paid quite a lot more for the M9 upgrade back in 2011 ... More critically, I agree with others who have commented that those who bought an M10 can still own it an use it. A cosmetic upgrade isn't compulsory. M9 and M240 upgrades were functional, M10 upgrade is cheap cosmetics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2018 Posted August 23, 2018 Hi mmradman, Take a look here M10-P Shutter Sound Comparison. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted August 24, 2018 Share #42 Posted August 24, 2018 M9 and M240 upgrades were functional, M10 upgrade is cheap cosmetics. Remind me what were the functional upgrades to the M9? Gorilla glass, touch screen and spirit leve are hardly “cheap cosmetics”. Iget it,the M10P isn’t for you, but I’m not sure your reasoning stands scrutiny. If I had an M10, I probably wouldn’t bother upgrading - I don’t see the point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 24, 2018 Share #43 Posted August 24, 2018 Remind me what were the functional upgrades to the M9? Gorilla glass, touch screen and spirit leve are hardly “cheap cosmetics”. Iget it,the M10P isn’t for you, but I’m not sure your reasoning stands scrutiny. If I had an M10, I probably wouldn’t bother upgrading - I don’t see the point. Only significant non-cosmetic upgrade to the M9 was a sapphire screen; otherwise removal of lettering and red dot, Leica script and some finish and covering options. The M10 and M10P have the same gorilla glass screens... I’m sure you meant to include the shutter sound as the third non-cosmetic difference. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveco Posted August 24, 2018 Share #44 Posted August 24, 2018 The value of the changes is subjective, so every individual is not going to agree on what that value is. I doubt that M10 sales become non-existant, because some shopping for a new M will not perceive enough value in the added features of the M10-P, to part with an extra $700, while others won’t bat an eye at the higher price, and will get the M10-P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 24, 2018 Share #45 Posted August 24, 2018 Only significant non-cosmetic upgrade to the M9 was a sapphire screen; otherwise removal of lettering and red dot, Leica script and some finish and covering options. The M10 and M10P have the same gorilla glass screens... I’m sure you meant to include the shutter sound as the third non-cosmetic difference. Jeff A rhetorical question, but thank you for answering, Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budjames Posted August 24, 2018 Share #46 Posted August 24, 2018 I think that the built-in level is more important than the quieter shutter. I wonder if that is something that can be added to the M10 with a firmware update? I just purchased 2 M10s within the past 9 months, so I have no plans to trade them in for the M10-P. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucerne Posted August 24, 2018 Share #47 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) No possibility of a firmware update to enable level display. The M10 is missing the necessary chip. This was explained by Jonoslack in an earlier post on the forum. Edited August 24, 2018 by lucerne 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted August 24, 2018 Share #48 Posted August 24, 2018 Only significant non-cosmetic upgrade to the M9 was a sapphire screen; otherwise removal of lettering and red dot, Leica script and some finish and covering options. The M10 and M10P have the same gorilla glass screens... I’m sure you meant to include the shutter sound as the third non-cosmetic difference. Jeff If memory serves both M9P and M240P had memory buffer upgrade. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted August 24, 2018 Share #49 Posted August 24, 2018 If memory serves both M9P and M240P had memory buffer upgrade. Also they were supplied with the manual. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287793-m10-p-no-instruction-manual-in-the-box/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 24, 2018 Share #50 Posted August 24, 2018 If memory serves both M9P and M240P had memory buffer upgrade. No, your memory buffer is overloaded; the M9P did not, only the sapphire screen. Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budjames Posted August 24, 2018 Share #51 Posted August 24, 2018 No possibility of a firmware update to enable level display. The M10 is missing the necessary chip. This was explained by Jonoslack in an earlier post on the forum. Lucerne, Okay, thanks. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roelv1 Posted August 25, 2018 Share #52 Posted August 25, 2018 Hello, I think the quieter shutter is the most important improvement over the M 10. But one should not exaggerate this. Leica writes on their website: to be unnoticed. I worked professionally for a long time with the analogue M's and although those cameras were also more quiet than the M 10, unnoticed was seldom the case. If it was silent inside a room one could hear the shutter and often I coughed to disguise the sound. Outside when working close too people ( which is mostly the best for good pictures) they noticed you anyway because there was a camera pointed on them. So there can be situations where a silent shutter has its benefits, but to be unnoticed requires more than only a silent shutter( and a black camera). Personally I won't upgrade my M 10. Waiting for the M 11 is a better option. The M10 P will still have a not so good battery life, which is very annoying when working in live view. The dynamic range could be better and so does the high ISO performance. Plus the camera should be less heavy. Probably these features will be realized in the M 11. Until than the shutter of the M 10 will do and is good enough for the job. Kind regards, Roel. http://www.roelvisser.nl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted August 25, 2018 Share #53 Posted August 25, 2018 Isn't the answer that the CCD sensor does not provide live view, so the shutter re-cocked, leaving the sensor covered. The CMOS cameras (M240 & M10) have live view, so the exposure is different - shutter closes, exposure, then reopens to re-establish live view. It's a more complicated and completely different process. That explanation makes sense ! Thanks John !! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 25, 2018 Share #54 Posted August 25, 2018 That explanation makes sense ! Thanks John !! But as I noted, the M240 and M10, while capable of live view due to CMOS, typically are used in ‘classic’ (not live view) mode, and the shutter action is correspondingly simple. Leica likely did more to damp the recock action and sound. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinfinity Posted August 25, 2018 Share #55 Posted August 25, 2018 I just get the distinct feeling that when designing and testing these cameras Leica makes no effort whatsoever to put these tools in the hands of actual working photographers who want to rely on them for earning a living in the areas in which this type of camera has been known to excel. If it was this easy to make the shutter more quiet on an interim revision, why in the hell could they not get it right in the first place? The only reason comes to my mind is "greedy." , which sounds bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted February 17, 2019 Share #56 Posted February 17, 2019 On August 25, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Kevinfinity said: The only reason comes to my mind is "greedy." , which sounds bad. Surprisingly Leica, like many other manufacturers, keep on working even after a camera model goes on the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 18, 2019 Share #57 Posted February 18, 2019 Am 24.8.2018 um 11:14 schrieb budjames: I think that the built-in level is more important than the quieter shutter. I wonder if that is something that can be added to the M10 with a firmware update? I just purchased 2 M10s within the past 9 months, so I have no plans to trade them in for the M10-P. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto. I traded my M10 in for the quieter shutter and the spirit level. You might want to consider trading in at least one of your two M10s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Posted March 22, 2019 Share #58 Posted March 22, 2019 Any word on the upgrades yet? I love using my M10 on jobs but the difference in sound between it and my Z6’s mechanical shutter is so prounouced that I bought a second Z6 and want to just leave the M10 at home. If I go all electronic shutter on the pair of Z’s then it really is no contest, the images I am making when shooting my editorial jobs are exponentially better than what I make with the M10 because I am completely free to concentrate on what is absolutely the best timed image. Im really ready to swap the shutter out on this thing and given the price disparity between a well used M10 and M10-P, the upgrade is the logical option. Anyone in line for it yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
low325 Posted March 22, 2019 Share #59 Posted March 22, 2019 I know I’m in the wrong thread, but i absolutely love the shutter of my M9. This is even after acquiring a M10-D, ha! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted March 23, 2019 Share #60 Posted March 23, 2019 On 8/23/2018 at 9:43 PM, daveco said: The value of the changes is subjective, so every individual is not going to agree on what that value is. I doubt that M10 sales become non-existant, because some shopping for a new M will not perceive enough value in the added features of the M10-P, to part with an extra $700, while others won’t bat an eye at the higher price, and will get the M10-P. Price really doesn't matter when we are discussing $7,500 or $8,200.00. If that $700 does matter then you probably shouldn't buy it to begin with, unless it's the end all be all. Not meant as an arrogant post at all. But, in general, people shouldn't' spend that much money on any given product if they don't have the free wheeling cash. A camera should never put a person in debt. PERIOD. Too many cameras and lenses are excellent to just that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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