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Which Leica as 2nd camera for vegan photographer with no depth perception?


frogoutofwater

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Hi everyone,

I recently joined the forum since I'm looking into the possibility of getting a 2nd camera system and thinking about a Leica. 

Currently, I use a Pentax K-1 (full-frame digital camera) and mostly use it for animal portraiture - semi-pro and fine art photography. For what this type of photography, weather resistance and zoom lenses are critical because I'm often photographing in an environment where I'm focusing on an animal in the distance one minute, and then another animal near me moments later. My favorite lenses are a 60-250 F.4 and a 24-70 F2.8.

I'm thinking about getting a second camera system that is more portable and more suitable for travel and everyday photography in situations where I want to travel light. Again, I'll be mostly using it to make portraits, with a little street photography and streetscapes, and I'm also likely to carry it to social settings (e.g. visiting family and friends) when I don't feel like dragging a big camera system around. I don't need a long lens, but I have a feeling I don't want to be restricted to a fixed lens either. (I have some fixed Pentax lenses and although I use them, I use them infrequently.)

Now, here are the tricky criteria - and I couldn't find easy answers when reading specs on the Leica website or a quick search in this forum.

1. I have extremely limited depth perception and with my interest in often fast-moving and unpredictable animal subjects, auto focus has been my friend. I fear that a rangefinder isn't going to work for me. I did try one (briefly, for an hour or so) in a Leica workshop a few years ago when I was a less experienced photographer and found it very hard to use. (I know that an hour isn't a long enough trial, but I wanted to mention that I had at least held one in my hands before and tried it.) So I've pretty much ruled out the M.

 

2. I'm vegan (and specialize in photographing rescued farm animals). So I avoid animal products as much as possible. That means no film cameras and I'm concerned about the references to leather cladding on some of the camera models. I'm not sure which have real leather and which have synthetic leather or some other material. 

 

Without finding an answer yet to (2), I'm thinking about the Q (highly portable but I'm wondering whether a fixed lens is too limiting for what I like to do), the CL (lighter than my current set-up and flexible because of the interchangeable lenses, but is it really light enough to justify the purchase?), the D-Lux or the V-Lux. (The D-Lux micro 4/3 sensor and fast lens is appealing but I'm wondering if it's a bit short for my taste. The V-Lux would be very versatile but I wonder if I'd find the 1" sensor adequate after shooting full frame - and is it too big?)

Any advice, as well as confirmed information about the use of leather in any of the cameras mentioned above, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!+ 

 

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Ad 2 I doubt whether you can rule out all film camera’s on the vegan criteirum alone, because vulcanite is not based on animal skin if I’m correct. I see hardly any leather in the R series. Together with the manual focus problem though you’re right.

Anyways, I think the V-lux is the most practical choice in your case. Do not underestimate what is possible in print with files from a V-lux. Of course on a 5K screen you will see difference with a Leica SL with a 90-280mm, but that’s a lot of money to start with when you’re still searching for your thing, which I presume you do.

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Very few cameras used real leather, except for carrying cases. (The 30s-50s Contax a notable exception.) However, most of camera "gripping surfaces" are made to look like leather, which is unacceptable for some vegans.

Leather cases went out of style more because of propensity for fungus and acid residue from tanning which damage cameras.

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Very few cameras used real leather, except for carrying cases. (The 30s-50s Contax a notable exception.) However, most of camera "gripping surfaces" are made to look like leather, which is unacceptable for some vegans.

Leather cases went out of style more because of propensity for fungus and acid residue from tanning which damage cameras.

I don't care if the gripping surfaces look like leather. But for the sake of my cow friends, I just don't want any of the camera components to be actual leather.

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Ad 2 I doubt whether you can rule out all film camera’s on the vegan criteirum alone, because vulcanite is not based on animal skin if I’m correct. I see hardly any leather in the R series. Together with the manual focus problem though you’re right.

Anyways, I think the V-lux is the most practical choice in your case. Do not underestimate what is possible in print with files from a V-lux. Of course on a 5K screen you will see difference with a Leica SL with a 90-280mm, but that’s a lot of money to start with when you’re still searching for your thing, which I presume you do.

With respect to the film cameras, I mean the film itself (not the camera). AFAIK, film that you buy for film cameras incorporates gelatin, which is derived from animals.

 

Gelatin is used as a coating for certain papers as well, so I avoid those, too.

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Ad 2 I doubt whether you can rule out all film camera’s on the vegan criteirum alone

 

Film emulsion bases are gelatin, which is an animal product.

 

Sorry - the OP had answered the same. I did not read ahead.

Edited by pico
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Leica's don't have leather covers (apart from a few special edition models). The covers are plastic but with 'leather look' or 'vulcanite look' which was the rubber based covering of Leica's from 60's and earlier.

 

The Leica T has a fully metal body, consider that too.

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I don't care if the gripping surfaces look like leather. But for the sake of my cow friends, I just don't want any of the camera components to be actual leather.

 

What if the cows (or goats) giving the leather died from natural causes and you can help them a little to eternal "life" by honoring their skins a few more years?

 

Maybe one can talk Leica into using certified leather from such animals that died of old age?

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From your original post, it sounds like the CL (or TL2) is right on the money.

 

Small, portable, IQ that is generally consistent with other Leica digital offerings, and has AF and interchangeable lenses. No animal products either. Done!

 

Whilst I am a Leica M user, and have a range of focal lengths, for a one lens solution for travel and everyday a 23mm (35mm equivalent) would be my choice. You may like a zoom to cover the same focal length, but I have no experience with Leica zooms.

 

Whatever you get, I’m sure you will enjoy using it immensely.

 

Cheers,

 

J :)

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You mentioned weather resistance. All Leicas are robust when used with common sense, but the S and SL systems are tops in weather sealing. The latter comes with a native weather sealed 24-90 zoom with AF, but it’s very large and heavy. It does, however, have stabilization for steady handholding. The CL system doesn’t have the same degree of sealing, but offers much the same in a smaller package, although the zooms lack stabilization.

 

As far as your eyesight issues, I strongly recommend trying before buying.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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The Q's auto focus system is superb, as are the images, but you might feel too limited by the 28 MM lens.  However, the sensor size is so generous and so good that serious cropping is most certainly possible, as is setting the camera to shoot as though a 35 mm or a 50 mm.  If that meets your needs, it costs about US$4200.

 

The V-Lux 114 is nearly as big and heavy as your Pentax, but the fixed mount 25-400 (with extension to 800mm via interpolation s/w which loses very little) is very versatile, and the auto focus is quite good and fast.  However, if you're shooting an animal partly behind leaves or twigs the auto focus will usually focus on them instead.  You can switch to manual focus, but it's less than easy or satisfying to do.  Cost about US$1300.

 

The D-Lux 109 is truly small and light (though heavy for its size) and has a good auto focus system.  It's fast 25-75 (with extension to 150mm via interpolation s/w which loses very little) is versatile, and manual focus is easy.  Cost about US$1100.

 

All other Leicas, though excellent in each of their classes will be significantly more expensive, definitely heavier, and in most cases larger than the three cameras listed above.

 

Please try them all, and let us know what you buy.  Then show is your photos.

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AF and small, low light - I wound check Pen F. You could get Leica AF lens for it.

They have some steam punk leather obsession on product page, but no mass produced cameras are coming covered in leather these days. It is called leatherette.

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In a time of climate change, and the absurd over-use of hydrocarbon products, I would rather use as many sustainable products as possible.  Properly managed, and humanely raised, animal products are sustainable; plastics, not so much.

 

If you are strictly opposed to the use of any animal products, I doubt there is a Leica (or any other camera, for that matter) which will meet your requirements.

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...I'm thinking about getting a second camera system that is more portable and more suitable for travel and everyday photography in situations where I want to travel light. Again, I'll be mostly using it to make portraits, with a little street photography and streetscapes, and I'm also likely to carry it to social settings (e.g. visiting family and friends) when I don't feel like dragging a big camera system around. I don't need a long lens, but I have a feeling I don't want to be restricted to a fixed lens either. (I have some fixed Pentax lenses and although I use them, I use them infrequently.)

 

Now, here are the tricky criteria - and I couldn't find easy answers when reading specs on the Leica website or a quick search in this forum.

 

1. I have extremely limited depth perception and with my interest in often fast-moving and unpredictable animal subjects, auto focus has been my friend. I fear that a rangefinder isn't going to work for me. I did try one (briefly, for an hour or so) in a Leica workshop a few years ago when I was a less experienced photographer and found it very hard to use. (I know that an hour isn't a long enough trial, but I wanted to mention that I had at least held one in my hands before and tried it.) So I've pretty much ruled out the M.

 

2. I'm vegan (and specialize in photographing rescued farm animals). So I avoid animal products as much as possible. That means no film cameras and I'm concerned about the references to leather cladding on some of the camera models. I'm not sure which have real leather and which have synthetic leather or some other material...

 

Given the above criteria, I think the digital CL with the Elmarit M 28mm f/2.8 lens is the answer you are looking for. 

 

With a crop factor of 1.5x, the 28mm on the CL will give you an angle of view of 42mm if you find the 28mm angle of view on the Q's fixed lens to be too short.  Down the road, if you want a wide angle lens for the CL, the 18mm lens Leica made for it will give you a 27mm equivalent focal length.  The CL is autofocus when using the 18, but it would be manual focus with the 28 Elmarit. If you need autofocus but the 18mm is too short, don't fret - just get closer to your intended subject till it fills the frame.

 

As for fast-moving and unpredictable animal subjects, use your DSLR system; problem solved.  The CL will be a great choice for portraits, with a little street photography and streetscapes, and social settings.

 

As for leather covering on the camera itself, I'm pretty sure that what comes on most standard production Leica cameras these days is a synthetic outer covering.  Leather is more costly than synthetic and attracts moisture, so as far as I know is no longer used unless you buy an M camera through the a la carte program and order a specific leather.

 

One caveat, though - the 28mm Elmarit does come in a leather zippered protector case (not sure about the 18mm).  You could send the case back to Leica for them to reuse it, or you could sell it for probably $50 on ebay and donaate the proceeds to ASPCA or another animal rescue organization of your choice.

 

Hope this helps.

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