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M10 M-D


IkarusJohn
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1 minute ago, plaidshirts said:

LOL, I didn't know most of those existed. Aimed at rich hipsters obviously.

Don't be so selective .... you need to be rich to own anything Leica branded. 😉

 

OMG ... can't believe the reaction to this camera, obviously very polarising. 

I'm delighted to see Leica expand the portfolio regardless of it being of zero interest to me.

If I want no interference or analogue experience I simply ignore or turn off the display.

However the digital workflow is never far behind and can't be done away with if shooting onto a card.

M10 is perhaps the most perfect Leica yet, more than adequate for most and plenty capable for those who demand more.

I'm just delighted to have such a reliable, user friendly, modern but also traditional handling machine at my fingertips.

 

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1 hour ago, schattenundlicht said:

My subconscious successfully removed all memories of these abominations. By far the worst was the embarassing Kravitz. Thanks for refreshing my recall ;)

😆😆😅 Yep, with all the angst over the M10-D I think we sometimes forget Leica is selling a brand sometimes more so that a camera. In the end it will all work out. Just wait until the EVF model comes out, total melt down! Cheers, jc

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For the forum beta testers -- you know who you are.  

I reviewed the instruction manual to see what "easter eggs" we missed.  There a few, for example a way to clean the sensor that probably also worked on the M-D -- you press the shutter and the top panel function button firmly and simultaneously, and the shutter opens  Switch power off to close it.

There are others, but not many.  I put a list in the beta forum.

 

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The addition of a film advance lever with no real purpose just blows my mind. When I first read this, I laughed so hard at this my eyes were tearing and my wife wanted to see what I was on about. She normally is indifferent to such silliness but she burst out laughing too. 

So a big thanks for the laugh Leica, it felt good. 

 

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Leica M-D instructions page 97 of manual for cleaning the sensor.

Check whether the camera battery has a capacity of at least 60%

2. Set the main switch to (setting to the far left)

3. Firstly, keep the function button pressed down, and then press the shutter release button.

The shutter opens, thus revealing the sensor for cleaning (if the battery capacity is too low, the shutter will not open and the

note bc (= Battery Capacity) appears in the viewfinder).

4. Clean:

Make sure you follow the instructions below.

5. After you have finished cleaning, turn the camera off with the

main switch. The shutter closes again after 10s.

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

For the forum beta testers -- you know who you are.  

I reviewed the instruction manual to see what "easter eggs" we missed.  There a few, for example a way to clean the sensor that probably also worked on the M-D -- you press the shutter and the top panel function button firmly and simultaneously, and the shutter opens  Switch power off to close it.

There are others, but not many.  I put a list in the beta forum.

 

 

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A different view

1st so as not to imply I am a long term Leica user - I am new to Leica (one year) so don't have history (baggage?) on how Leica used to do it.  I would assume I'm someone Leica would like to attract as a long term customer. 20 + Years with Canon and still shoot Canon for sports (e.g. 400mm lens). I also assume a smartphone in my life, in fact I depend on it. I have assumed Adobe Lightroom is my darkroom or Snapseed on my Android phone. My Andoid phone ha the processing power of my laptop 7 years ago - Of course I want to have that with me in the field. I think workflow when I develop images. I think Composition when I shoot. I also am in the Computer SW world professionally so very comfortable with change and Apps. So my opinions come from that background not a film shooter on M4/5 then M6 then ...

I think leveraging a smartphone for occasional micro edits to camera settings is a brilliant idea. I set my camera up for the day and go shoot. I chimp rarely. I look at photos when I stop and grab a coffee so would much rather look at my shots on my  OLED 5.8"  2960 x 1449 display ... My current M10 display is 3" and lets not quote how few pixels it has. A workflow where I can review my work as I take a break and not chimp my life away is actually my goal. 

I like not worrying about breaking the rear glass. Or waterproof aspects of the camera. No glass and camera body design to accommodate all the buttons and glass means it should be more waterproof (Should be)

I don't care about the history of the wind lever. Much as I don't care about the history of the gear shift in a car. I need the function of the thumb support and in fact bought one for my M10. So now I don't have to buy one. 

I post on Instagram as well as print 13x 19 as well a sell images from my site. I hope that Leica sees me as a target customer and continues to enhance the smartphone integration. I would love the option of my phone to gently beep/alert me if my histogram is horrible and nonrecoverable with my editing software  - Just as an example

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SMAL said:

100%. Go out and test it. Shoot awb and kelvin side by side. 

Hi.

There is a reason why the old digital back , designed to shoot only RAW files in the brand specific format and  able to generate only jpeg files for  a tiny screen ( not always) had white balance functionality build in. 

It was not only the matter of convenience, they were not built for convenience, it’s the matter of correct interpretation of color by a digital sensor. 

At least in my very limited amateurish experience, when the color balance set on my m9 and S2 is terribly wrong, I would be fighting with the purple and dark red colors to make them right. Maybe you have newer cameras and sensors and they behave in a different way. So for me the auto balance is a thing I try to avoid. A passport or a grey card is a necessary part of my workflow. 

Yevgeny 

 

p.s. Sorry for my long of topic post. 

Edited by ynp
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53 minutes ago, HELM said:

A different view

1st so as not to imply I am a long term Leica user - I am new to Leica (one year) so don't have history (baggage?) on how Leica used to do it.  I would assume I'm someone Leica would like to attract as a long term customer. 20 + Years with Canon and still shoot Canon for sports (e.g. 400mm lens). I also assume a smartphone in my life, in fact I depend on it. I have assumed Adobe Lightroom is my darkroom or Snapseed on my Android phone. My Andoid phone ha the processing power of my laptop 7 years ago - Of course I want to have that with me in the field. I think workflow when I develop images. I think Composition when I shoot. I also am in the Computer SW world professionally so very comfortable with change and Apps. So my opinions come from that background not a film shooter on M4/5 then M6 then ...

I think leveraging a smartphone for occasional micro edits to camera settings is a brilliant idea. I set my camera up for the day and go shoot. I chimp rarely. I look at photos when I stop and grab a coffee so would much rather look at my shots on my  OLED 5.8"  2960 x 1449 display ... My current M10 display is 3" and lets not quote how few pixels it has. A workflow where I can review my work as I take a break and not chimp my life away is actually my goal. 

I like not worrying about breaking the rear glass. Or waterproof aspects of the camera. No glass and camera body design to accommodate all the buttons and glass means it should be more waterproof (Should be)

I don't care about the history of the wind lever. Much as I don't care about the history of the gear shift in a car. I need the function of the thumb support and in fact bought one for my M10. So now I don't have to buy one. 

I post on Instagram as well as print 13x 19 as well a sell images from my site. I hope that Leica sees me as a target customer and continues to enhance the smartphone integration. I would love the option of my phone to gently beep/alert me if my histogram is horrible and nonrecoverable with my editing software  - Just as an example

 

 

 

Thank you so much. My main job is also in IT and I agree with everything you said. I preordered the first M10-D at Meister-Camera Hamburg. I rather look at the images on my bigger smartphone or tablet and also enjoy the idea of the thumb grip the lever gives. I wish it could advance the shutter but can also understand Leicas choice of keeping the shutter motorised.

I’ll post a short review once I’m holding the camera in my hands.

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2 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

For the forum beta testers -- you know who you are.  

I reviewed the instruction manual to see what "easter eggs" we missed.  There a few, for example a way to clean the sensor that probably also worked on the M-D -- you press the shutter and the top panel function button firmly and simultaneously, and the shutter opens  Switch power off to close it.

There are others, but not many.  I put a list in the beta forum.

 

No, that doesn't work on the M-D. 

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18 minutes ago, ramarren said:

No, that doesn't work on the M-D. 

A post just above found  it on page 97 of the M-D manual.  It seems that you turn the power switch all the way to the left , then press the function button, and hold it down while pressing the shutter release.  Try that...  (The M10-D doesn't have a three-position power switch.)

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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1 minute ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

A post just above found  it on page 97 of the M-D manual.  It seems that you press the function button, and hold it down while pressing the shutter release.  Try that...

Not quite, Scott. On the M-D typ 262, set the self timer mode, check that you have 60% plus on the battery, and then the clean function will work with the FUNC+SHUTTER press. And it's different from the M10-D procedure (page 68 of the M10-D manual). 

 

I hunted for this in the M-D instruction manual PDF at least once before. For some reason, the search doesn't find it ... when I later found it, I bookmarked it for easy access. :)

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Perhaps I’m alone in this but I don’t love the controls on the back of this.  I use a half case and would have preferred to be able to cover the back completely.  The top is exposed already and could have handled an on-off switch and exposure compensation with thumbwheel as the M10.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb HELM:

...

I post on Instagram as well as print 13x 19 as well a sell images from my site. I hope that Leica sees me as a target customer and continues to enhance the smartphone integration. I would love the option of my phone to gently beep/alert me if my histogram is horrible and nonrecoverable with my editing software  - Just as an example

...

I hope Leica sees you as the target costumer - especially as far as smartphone integration is concerned.

The Fotos App which was released officially today does not show any histogram - neither with Liveview nor with the photo in the „Gallery“. Of course I can tell only about the „normal“ M10. Perhaps it‘s completely different for the M10-D.

My advise for everyone hoping to integrate the app in his photography was to look first what the app really can and what not. 

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56 minutes ago, UliWer said:

I hope Leica sees you as the target costumer - especially as far as smartphone integration is concerned.

The Fotos App which was released officially today does not show any histogram - neither with Liveview nor with the photo in the „Gallery“. Of course I can tell only about the „normal“ M10. Perhaps it‘s completely different for the M10-D.

My advise for everyone hoping to integrate the app in his photography was to look first what the app really can and what not. 

Thanks (being a target customer)

The reason I am so strong in my request for a Fotos App integration roadmap is Leica can add features to their App without requiring deep camera firmware development. A histogram capability is just one example. Another is creating an in/out focus detection alert (google deep learning and focus detection). those kind of capabilities can be developed for an App that spans their entire product line but would never get bespoke firmware programming for each tiny product line.

So don't look at what an App can do today but what is being done downstream - that can be ported to a phone (Inference engine processor)

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49 minutes ago, HELM said:

Leica can add features to their App without requiring deep camera firmware development. [...] creating an in/out focus detection alert (google deep learning and focus detection). those kind of capabilities can be developed for an App that spans their entire product line but would never get bespoke firmware programming for each tiny product line.

They can add App features only if the camera provides the data, and that requires firmware development - constantly.
So far, deep learning focus detection works for static (microscope) applications which also require large database references;

 

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19 minutes ago, pico said:

They can add App features only if the camera provides the data, and that requires firmware development - constantly.
So far, deep learning focus detection works for static (microscope) applications which also require large database references;

 

Hi Pico

Actually firmware changes are not required - the example I gave was chosen for that reason. Deep Learning needs training images. Curated and lots of them (I agree with you here).  Does not require firmware to change the output for analysis by the DL network, just the resulting images. Same thing for a histogram "alert". Database of curated images, train a chosen DL NN and improve - results in an inference engine you can run on a  phone. It is what the industry is going through today (rapidly)

Whether we call this Computational photography or AI photography is not the point. The point is people are targeting smartphones with these new techniques as the market is huge

Leica should surf the wave and I don't have to update my camera or stare at my "3.0" 1.04m-Dot LCD". The fact Leica uses "Dot" not resolution or vs DPI tells us it's not the right place to view photos. My vote: Let the phone deal with looking/editing/changing photos. Let the camera focus on composition and engagement with the subject.

For traditionalist who want to use a Computer not their phone - they get to play as well. See Adobe Sensei's early work

Edited by HELM
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Helm, to follow your path concerns me not because I am skeptical of AI, but because there is a different path to unassisted, perhaps primitive imagery and aesthetics.

Very Best,
Pico

 

Edited by pico
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