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Can the SF C1 control the Nissin i60A for others systems?


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Has anyone successfully used the SF C1 on the Leica SL to control a Nissin i60A for the Fujifilm system in TTL mode?  I am currently using the SF C1 on my Leica SL with my SF 60, but I would also like to purchase an i60A for my Fujifilm GFX 50s, and use it as a second flash with my Leica SL/SF C1 as well.

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It is great pain communicating with Nissin. The Japan site diverts all overseas enquirers to their Hong Kong Marketing office and the marketing office knows no technical details. Alll mails and enquirers on technical matters ended up not replied. As both SF C1 & I60As are produced by Nissin, only they can solve the technical glitch we currently encountered. As I conclude they are just not interested in Leica users buying their products.

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I'm very disappointed, as a customer, about the disdainful position adopted by Leitz and Nissin both hinting at the the real possibility of respective firmwares able to link the use of Nissin flashes with the Leica SF C1. Both also saying to the other that must be the one on charge of solve the problem. Both forgetting that many of the buyers of C1 were expecting not only that possibility, but also to use the C1 as a trigger for other flashes even thought in manual mode. Both trying to hidden the reality that the flash Leica SF 60  is a modified Nissin i60 with the agreement and the complicity of Nissin. Both ignoring but beneficed by the fact that this circumstance has been and will be a very good argument for selling their products.

I think that both, Leica and Nissin, must end up with the divorce of their firmwares by mean of a simple agreement of softwares at least in a basic mutual recognition...

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  • 3 months later...

In case anyone is still looking for a solution to this problem, I have managed to get this to work. This required sending my i60a (Sony version) to my local Nissin distributor for a firmware upgrade. (This incurred a small charge for return postage.) However, I can now use my Leica controller to control both the i60a and sf 60.

In order to be compatible with the Leica controller, the i60A needs version-head – 09, body – 06 (v0906) or higher.

 

 

To check firmware version:

Press the On/Off button to turn on the i40/i60A and then press the On/Off and Pilot buttons simultaneously for 3 seconds

3. Release both On/Off button and Pilot button.

The firmware versions will be displayed on the screen. The top number is the Head version and the bottom number the Body version

 

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10 hours ago, jodw said:

In case anyone is still looking for a solution to this problem, I have managed to get this to work. This required sending my i60a (Sony version) to my local Nissin distributor for a firmware upgrade. (This incurred a small charge for return postage.) However, I can now use my Leica controller to control both the i60a and sf 60.

In order to be compatible with the Leica controller, the i60A needs version-head – 09, body – 06 (v0906) or higher.

 

 

 

 

To check firmware version:

Press the On/Off button to turn on the i40/i60A and then press the On/Off and Pilot buttons simultaneously for 3 seconds

 

3. Release both On/Off button and Pilot button.

 

The firmware versions will be displayed on the screen. The top number is the Head version and the bottom number the Body version

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks jodw,

That’s useful information.

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  • 11 months later...

I don't know why Leica don't just adopt the Panasonic / Olympus flash protocols.  This would make the flash system compatible with the S1 and 3rd party systems, such as Godox.  These weedy i60-based flashes are quite limited and, as has been observed above, have no apparent compatibility with the Nissin ecosystem, so they are more restricted still.  This approach might have been acceptable for the M system (which has a similarly brain dead / broken approach to flash) but the M-system is for available light, whereas the SL line ought to take a more serious approach to lighting support.

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12 hours ago, jrp said:

I don't know why Leica don't just adopt the Panasonic / Olympus flash protocols.  This would make the flash system compatible with the S1 and 3rd party systems, such as Godox.  These weedy i60-based flashes are quite limited and, as has been observed above, have no apparent compatibility with the Nissin ecosystem, so they are more restricted still.  This approach might have been acceptable for the M system (which has a similarly brain dead / broken approach to flash) but the M-system is for available light, whereas the SL line ought to take a more serious approach to lighting support.

+1. I was hoping for the flash protocol to be standardised in the L-Mount Alliance. This way 3rd party flash makers will respond to the potential demand pool of users.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I purchased the SF-60 and SF C1 controller to use on my SL2 and M10. It paired easily and seems to work okay. 

According to my recent correspondence with Nissin tech support, any of the current Nissin speed lights with their NAS wireless capability can be controlled by the SF C1 controller. I ordered the Nissin MG10 potato masher style speed light as I have seen good reviews from Leica users. It's on backorder, but I hope to receive it soon.

My portable speed light set up with be 2 SF-60s and the Nissin MG10.

I do wish that Profoto would become compatible for Leica HSS. They make a controller that allows manual operation of Profoto speed lights and moonlights, but with no TTL or HSS on Leica. Bummer.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Edited by budjames
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On 12/8/2019 at 3:30 PM, jto555 said:

Nissin is a cheap product that no professional would use. It really lets the whole system down. 

I’ve done studio/location work with ProFoto, Paul Buff, Elinchrom, and a number of proprietary and third-party flash systems (Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Metz, and now Leica/Nissin). 

I obviously cannot speak to your experience and I have no experience with other Nissin products but I’m not sure where the snobbery comes from. My recent experience with the Nissin MG-10 is all the evidence I need to know that it’s a first-rate flash system in just about every sense—connectivity, output, build quality, power options, etc. I do not think my Einsteins or ProFotos will come out of storage much. My issues using the system were (I suspect) actually with the SL2 camera’s flash implementation.

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59 minutes ago, nryn said:

I’ve done studio/location work with ProFoto, Paul Buff, Elinchrom, and a number of proprietary and third-party flash systems (Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Metz, and now Leica/Nissin). 

I obviously cannot speak to your experience and I have no experience with other Nissin products but I’m not sure where the snobbery comes from. My recent experience with the Nissin MG-10 is all the evidence I need to know that it’s a first-rate flash system in just about every sense—connectivity, output, build quality, power options, etc. I do not think my Einsteins or ProFotos will come out of storage much. My issues using the system were (I suspect) actually with the SL2 camera’s flash implementation.

The MG10 is the alternative to Godox popular AD200 which Leica OCF system can operate in TTL & HSS 

It is strong enough to fill the shadow of my subjects under intense backlighting situation where most single speedlights fail.
 

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On 12/22/2019 at 12:26 AM, nryn said:

I’ve done studio/location work with ProFoto, Paul Buff, Elinchrom, and a number of proprietary and third-party flash systems (Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Metz, and now Leica/Nissin). 

I obviously cannot speak to your experience and I have no experience with other Nissin products but I’m not sure where the snobbery comes from. My recent experience with the Nissin MG-10 is all the evidence I need to know that it’s a first-rate flash system in just about every sense—connectivity, output, build quality, power options, etc. I do not think my Einsteins or ProFotos will come out of storage much. My issues using the system were (I suspect) actually with the SL2 camera’s flash implementation.

I also have experience in studio work plus location work and have used Broncolor, Bowens, Multiblitz, Elinchrom, in the studio while Canon, Nikon, Metz and Leica/Metz Leica/Nissin, on location. My experience with Nissin is the i40. I am on my third one, not because I think they are wonderful but two stopped working on shots. The third one is still in its box! The build quality is not as good as Canon/Nikon, I am sure you will agree with that and the roter dial on the back can be moved off a setting too easily. I found out the hard way! The i60 seems to be a bigger version of the i40.

The Nissin MG10, I have to admit that I have no experience with that flashgun. However it is a hammerhead flashgun so not easy to use with modifiers. But with Leica/Nissin that is it. If I shoot events I need on camera flash which will give me HSS, I would like TTL. Most importantly I need flashguns that are reliable. For me the Nissin is not.


 

The systems I would like to see with 3rd party support for Leica are Godox and Profoto.

(By the way, I am not involved/endorsed working for or have any relationship with these manufactures).

Look at the range from Godox:

850ii, 860ii plus V1 (with a round head) for on camera flash and these are just the ones with lithium-ion batteries. Plus these flashguns have built in triggers to control off camera strobes.

AD200, AD400, AD600, and an about to be released AD1200 for off camera strobes. These are just the battery powered range

BUT you have to buy from a retailer for warranty cover not from Amazon or eBay.


 

Profoto:

A1X for on camera flash.

B10 and B10plus (a small 500 watt second flash), B1X (a bigger 500 watt second flash). Again these are just the battery powered range.

BUT a very expensive brand with great backup.

 

So who needs this range of flash. Think a wedding photographer, sports photographer – not shooting a live sports events, portrait photographers, wildlife photographers. The list is endless so for the SL to be used by pro photographers Leica needs to get the flash implementation sorted out.

 

Canon and Nikon can both use all the above flashguns with HSS and TTL. Sony can also plus they are now market leaders because the have the cameras where Canon and Nikon do not.

 

The SL2 looks like a brilliant camera but for a pro it is crippled by not been able to use the strobes needed for the job.

 

By the way, it is not snobbery to want to use the correct tools for the job.

 

 

Edited by jto555
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1 hour ago, jto555 said:

By the way, it is not snobbery to want to use the correct tools for the job.

That's fair, use whatever tools work for you.

If a sweeping generalization such as "no professional would use a Nissin" is not snobbish, I'm not sure what it is. It would be the same as me saying that no real professional would use TTL (which, to be clear, I'm not saying). In general I find that people (in any field) who feel a need to define professionalism through a brand preference are ignorant about the amount of superior work done by people using so-called "lesser" equipment.

Anyway, we're in agreement on one thing—something is wonky with the SL2 and the shot-to-shot reliability of its flash implementation. I would candidly love for all of the flash manufacturers to standardize their communication protocols.

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  • 6 months later...
On 12/21/2019 at 4:23 AM, budjames said:

I purchased the SF-60 and SF C1 controller to use on my SL2 and M10. It paired easily and seems to work okay. 

According to my recent correspondence with Nissin tech support, any of the current Nissin speed lights with their NAS wireless capability can be controlled by the SF C1 controller. I ordered the Nissin MG10 potato masher style speed light as I have seen good reviews from Leica users. It's on backorder, but I hope to receive it soon.

My portable speed light set up with be 2 SF-60s and the Nissin MG10.

 

I have the C1 and a couple SF60's too. So, if I grab a couple new i60's or an i40 I should be good? That would save me $300 a unit. :)

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I'v e tried my SF C1 with a Nissin i60 without problems but I couldn't use that flash connected directly to the hot shoe of my Leicas. Try to check it before buying.

 

Francisco.

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On 7/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, thatkatmat said:

I have the C1 and a couple SF60's too. So, if I grab a couple new i60's or an i40 I should be good? That would save me $300 a unit. :)

You cannot control the i40 with the C1 or any Nissin controller. It does not have a radio receiver.  You can control it as a line of sight slave, but not with a radio controller.  The i60 can be controlled by the C1. 

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  • 2 months later...

I have a Leica SFC1 Unit and a Nissin i60A Flash Unit for Fuji. I sent the Nissin in for a software update and can now trigger the Fuji Nissin 60A with my M10 and M240 Cameras. Has anybody experience with the same set up? I struggling a bit the the modes and I am not sure that TTL really works

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