Used Leica M or New Leica CL

[ropo54]

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Hi all, 

 

I have recently sold my Leica Q in order to buy something with interchangeable lenses.

 

I am really struggling to chose between buying a new Leica CL, Summicron 23mm (and I will probably down the road buy the adapter and some M-lenses), or a used Leica M 240 along with a used Leica M lens (probably 50 mm Summicron). In the end both options will do the same damage to my wallet    For info, I do currently not own any Leica lenses.

 

I am not a professional, merely a happy amateur. My photography is concentrated around portraits (bokeh!!), family, travel, social activities, landscape, architecture.

 

My heart is leaning towards the M, while my brain (and wife, even though she is not negative for the M) towards the CL. I am a bit afraid of the rangefinder, and if I will be able to focus as quick as I want to. The CL have AF on TL-lenses and focus-peaking on M-glass through the EVF (I know the M240 have focus-peaking on the screen and the optional viewfinder, but then the point of the RF is kinda gone?). After all the CL might just be a pit-stop to the M(?). I am not interested in sports- or action photography (even though we do have a eager and young dog), but it would be awful to miss a moment due to lacking focus.

 

My question is; which option would you buy, and why?

 

PS: I have in the process already passed on Sony and Fujifilm due to their overly-complex nature...

 

 

Seems like you will forever wonder if you do not buy a manual focus Rangefinder, so go for it with some lenses. Then, find a really nice preowned Leica T for $400+ USD and try the lenses you acquire, or buy one of Leica's great AF lenses.  Good luck!

Rob

[IkarusJohn]

The M is the heart of my photography, with 21-75mm covered in 4 lenses. My Monochrom, M-A and soon to be released M10 M-D provides a very simple, very considered form of photography that allows me to think more about what I’m photographing, rather than the multifarious options and settings on my camera.

 

The TL2 (with 11-23mm zoom and 35/1.4 prime) provides a wide and prime option in a compact, AF package. Using this camera is a completely different experience to using an M.

 

The SL provides different options again, covering 16-280mm in three AF zooms and one fast prime. I wouldn’t be without any of them. The TL2 could be a Sony or Fuji compact and the SL a Canon or Nikon, it doesn’t really matter.

 

For most situations, it is the M which makes the difference.

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[jaapv]

Agree, I am happy with M9, MM1 and CL. Although my heart is with the Monochrom, the CL gets by far the most use. That's where we differ

[IkarusJohn]

Perhaps not. I no longer have a colour digital. My Monochrom is also my “cold dead hands” camera, but I have been using my TL2 more, largely because of its size and convenience. Also, the drugs I’m on have given me the shakes - the TL2 is easier to use.

[Lee Rust]

I've been focusing with a rangefinder all my life and can't understand why people get so worried about messing up. All that's needed is a few minutes of practice. If I were a sports or wildlife photographer compelled by competitive pressures to take 10 frames per second tracking a fast-moving game or bird in flight, then I might want fast continuous autofocus, but for everyday scenics, candids and portraits, what's the hurry? Even scurrying kids and pets are not a problem with a rangefinder. Besides, I've missed focus on plenty of shots with autofocus cameras that unexpectedly locked on the wrong object. Choosing the focus point in a scene involves a pretty complex set of quick decisions. Why trust that job to the programmed estimation of some complex algorithm when you already know what you want?

 

In any event, either M240 or CL can make great photos. If it's definitely manual focus you prefer, then I would go with the M240. If you tend towards autofocus, then the CL with native lenses.  I've tried using manual focus peaking on mirrorless cameras and personally find the shimmering colored lines to be way more distracting than a rangefinder patch. Your perception may differ, so visit a nearby camera store or Best Buy and see if you're OK with focus peaking in general. If so, the CL would give you an option to try some M lenses later on.

[Peter Kilmister]

@: Lee Rust,

Thank you for articulating what I discovered a few years ago. MF isn't difficult. AF is still a modern invention and can cause terrible problems with weird focus decisions by a computer with no brain. I grew up with MF. AF seemed attractive until I tried to choose my focal point. At that point I moved to Leica M which is probably the only remaining MF camera system. Well worth it. To retain control of focus is so important even if you might have missed a few shots. The good ones are your art, not the art of a machine.  

[FrozenInTime]

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At this time I’m finding it interesting that the newly released M10-P is showing in stock at retailers, while the CL and lens kits are more likely to show as waiting for stock.

[IkarusJohn]

At this time I’m finding it interesting that the newly released M10-P is showing in stock at retailers, while the CL and lens kits are more likely to show as waiting for stock.

 

 

Not so surprising, if you consider that Leica suffered huge criticism on the release of the M9 and the M(240) by announcing the cameras, then being unable to supply stock.  Since then, Leica seems to have ensured that its batch manufacturing has a supply available on launch of a new product, but if it's popular that stock will run dry.

 

The CL has been available for some time, and is presumably awaiting the next batch production - hence the unavailability of the camera and lenses.  The M10-P has just been released, so stock is available.  Check again in a few months, and the M10-P will probably be "awaiting stock" or "back ordered", and the CL and TL lenses will be available everywhere.

 

For a small company (smaller than many realise), managing stock levels is a challenge - having stock available, assessing demand, then  running down stock at the end of the model cycle.  My experience has been, if you want a Leica camera or lens, buy it when it's available - otherwise it will become unavailable (as the next product cycle is to come around) or discontinued.

 

I wouldn't read too much into availability.

 

Cheers

John

[Joeri]

I have to agree with Jaap. Even after having shot a few M's and the SL, the CL is an amazing little camera. I think the FF vs APS-C thing is being exaggerated. I'm not saying I'd shoot an entire wedding with the CL - even though I could if I wanted to -, but don't underestimate the CL. I've already sold a couple of stories where CL pictures are printed as a cover story and bigger on spreads.

Also, maybe you can compare the CL to other APS-C cameras IQ wise, but the Leica DNA is truly there. Even if the IQ of any Fuji or Sony would be the same as the CL, I'd still pay the premium price for the CL for the interface alone.

Lastly: never underestimate the convenience of a small and very light setup. The CL might seem more fragile than the M, but it doesn't have the most fragile mechanical part of that camera: the rangefinder.

[jmahto]

I really don’t get the RF being so fragile. In my 6 years of M9 and M240, I never had RF issue. That includes a hard drop on a rock from 3 ft height.

I do agree though about CL IQ being more than sufficient. Now a days almost all cams are excellent from sensor perspective. The reason to get CL will be haptics and lenses and not sensor IQ.

[sblutter]

Will you be making pics for the web or print?  Are you a snapper or serious photographer (journalist, artist etc?)

 

If for prints, how big?  If really big, you need FF with Photoshop skills.

 

My pocket camera is a Sony RF100 3 - fab 1.8 Zeiss lens.  Great for snaps but not serious prints

 

The CL is fine, but my M240 gets used 100x more.  I've been an M shooter since my teens - a long time ago.  M's become extensions of your eyes & hands.  They're special.

 

I agree with the comments above, that the CL is just another of many of its type.  I don't see the need for a Leica when most of that category's offerings are so similar

 

Maybe start with a used M9 or 240 and a used 50 like a Summicron Ver 3 or younger.  If you don't get on with it, sell with little loss or risk