Who are these beach photographers using Leica 250's ?

[willeica]

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Interesting that the ANZOO trimming template was more expensive in the USA than in the UK. From James Lager's book 1935 US Price $2.40 Price from post above 7 shillings = £0.35. The rate of exchange was fixed £1 = $5, so the price in the USA should only have been $1.75 - a bit of price gouging going on there 

 

Wilson

 

There may have been import tariffs, of course. Something that US and UK Leica users may find to be a significant factor in the not so distant future. I will start a separate thread about pre-war and post-war Leica prices.

 

William

[schattenundlicht]

After a bit of detective work, I have got a good planar photo of the ANZOO template for the 250 Reporter cameras and by extrapolation from some know measurements, I have now made a set of basic drawings attached as a PDF. From these I will get my son to do a proper CAD drawing. We will start by printing a test version in plastic and if that is successful, go on to printing one in metal. The original ANZOO templates seem to be fetching upwards of $2500 - and when you think that in 1935 they cost $2-40¢. 

 

Wilson

Hello Wilson,

 

although not as rare, a metal replica of the ABLON would be very welcome by many practicing LTM photographers who no longer are able to source one at an acceptable price point. If your experiment with the ANZOO goes well, you and your son might do the community a great favour by printing a mini-series of ABLONS (nudge)

 

For practical purposes, I get by with my 5 cent plastic template, a pen and a pair of well forged nail scissors, but it always feels a bit wrong...

 

Kind regards

Mathias

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[TomB_tx]

Hello Wilson,

 

although not as rare, a metal replica of the ABLON would be very welcome by many practicing LTM photographers who no longer are able to source one at an acceptable price point. If your experiment with the ANZOO goes well, you and your son might do the community a great favour by printing a mini-series of ABLONS (nudge)

 

For practical purposes, I get by with my 5 cent plastic template, a pen and a pair of well forged nail scissors, but it always feels a bit wrong...

 

Kind regards

Mathias

 

Agreed - copies of ABLON and ANZOO would be very welcome. I have a couple of genuine Leitz ABLON (slightly different designs), and a similar "generic" trimmer from the 1960s, as well as a modern plastic copy (molded, not 3-D printed). I'd spring for a metal printed ABLON.

[wlaidlaw]

Tom and Mathias, 

 

Whereas I might be able to persuade my son to make a CAD drawing and with a bit more arm twisting, an STP print file, I would very much doubt him producing more than a prototype. He is an R&D engineer not production. The last time he put me in touch with a company called Frazer Nash (the successors to the race car making company), who now design electric road vehicle traction systems for the motor industry. This was when I needed to get a part made for my Combat Graflex. As a one off part, having the drawings made, then the STP print file written and the part printed in titanium (it was a complicated part being a ring with shaped lugs on either side, originally probably a lost wax aluminium casting), cost me £400, so it is not a cheap process. My thought would be if I can get the CAD drawings made, then I would get the two side plates made in brass by water jet cutting. This is a much cheaper process and with a soft material like brass, you can cut up to 6 sheets at a time of 18 gauge (the same as an ABLON uses). We might even be able to consider making hinges with that method. The other much simpler way if I can find the raw material is to use a piano hinge (if I can find one of sufficient depth and without screw holes) and then just cut the profile with a water jet cutter at best or a milling cutter. 

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Tom and Mathias, 

 

I think I have found the perfect raw material to make new ABLON and ANZOO templates. It is this https://www.hagerco.com/products/roton-continuous-geared-hinges/780-series-concealed/780-112 The leaves are 44mm deep, or deep enough to cut the 40mm deep leaves of the templates we want. Much easier way to start. Then all we have to do is to cut to length. mill the template shape then insert sprocket pegs. If you look at the way Leica do the sprocket pegs, they end mill a shallow hole on the inside surface of one leaf, with a smaller hole drilled through, the sprocket peg with a round base is then inserted into the milled recess and riveted over. The hole on the opposite leaf is milled to an oblong. 

 

Wilson

[schattenundlicht]

Although, in principal, 3D printing can be done inexpensively, especially with plastics, the expertise needed to get truly usable print files and using the right materials and parameters, can make it prohibitively expensive for custom parts. I found out that much, when I started projecting a transparent body shell for one of my LTM‘s in order to have the wonderful mechanism visible for presentation and playing around while keeping dust out. But then, that idea might have been a bit nerdy, anyway.

[jaapv]

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Tom and Mathias, 

 

Whereas I might be able to persuade my son to make a CAD drawing and with a bit more arm twisting, an STP print file, I would very much doubt him producing more than a prototype. He is an R&D engineer not production. The last time he put me in touch with a company called Frazer Nash (the successors to the race car making company), who now design electric road vehicle traction systems for the motor industry. This was when I needed to get a part made for my Combat Graflex. As a one off part, having the drawings made, then the STP print file written and the part printed in titanium (it was a complicated part being a ring with shaped lugs on either side, originally probably a lost wax aluminium casting), cost me £400, so it is not a cheap process. My thought would be if I can get the CAD drawings made, then I would get the two side plates made in brass by water jet cutting. This is a much cheaper process and with a soft material like brass, you can cut up to 6 sheets at a time of 18 gauge (the same as an ABLON uses). We might even be able to consider making hinges with that method. The other much simpler way if I can find the raw material is to use a piano hinge (if I can find one of sufficient depth and without screw holes) and then just cut the profile with a water jet cutter at best or a milling cutter. 

 

Wilson

 

 

You might consider contacting Uwe Weller Feinmechanik. After all, they are the machined parts supplier to Leica.

[wlaidlaw]

You might consider contacting Uwe Weller Feinmechanik. After all, they are the machined parts supplier to Leica.

 

At least we don't have a patent or copyright issue, since all DRP's were cancelled in 1946 by the London Agreement. 

 

Wilson

 

PS Rather than an expensive German manufacturer, I was thinking of Asytec in Guangzhou. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[Pyrogallol]

Shapeways produce camera accessories by 3D, I recently bought a ”metal” lenshood for my 35mm Voigtlander M lens from them. They might be interested in producing ABLONs for sale?

[wlaidlaw]

Shapeways produce camera accessories by 3D, I recently bought a ”metal” lenshood for my 35mm Voigtlander M lens from them. They might be interested in producing ABLONs for sale?

 

I will contact them. For myself I already have an original ABLON but as I have already lost one (in 1962!), I would not mind having another cheap 3D printed plastic one to carry around and if they could make an ANZOO from my drawings that would be marvellous. 

 

Wilson

[pico]

I appreciate the virtue of the inexpensive, however looking long-term today's CNC process has excellent optical copying and creation of machine instructions, that is if long-term product availability is a concern.

Edited September 3, 2018 by pico

[wlaidlaw]

I appreciate the virtue of the inexpensive, however looking long-term today's CNC process has excellent optical copying and creation of machine instructions, that is if long-term product availability is a concern.

 

Jac, 

 

I think cutting the side plates from 16 or 18ga brass sheet with a CNC water jet cutter is the easy bit. Water jet makes a cleaner cut in non-ferrous metal than a plasma cutter. Forming the hinge joints at the closed edge is much more difficult. I have spoken to a specialist hinge maker in the UK and I have said I will come and see him when I get back to the UK. He thinks he might be able to help as after all, these templates are just a flush shut hinge, with a template pattern cut on the open edges and location pegs for the sprocket holes. The hinge maker said I might need to go elsewhere to get the sprocket locating pegs put in, as he probably would not have the machine to do that. He suggested spot welding the pegs on and using stainless steel for the material rather than brass. Cutting the holes on the other leaf for the peg holes would not be a problem for them. 

 

Wilson

Edited September 4, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[M9reno]

The hinge feature, despite being desirable if one is looking for a close reproduction, is not strictly necessary for the main job of the template. Putting the film between two pieces of metal of the correct shape will yield the same result.

 

Anyway, I would certainly be keen to buy a metal ANZOO copy, even unhinged and in two parts.

[Pyrogallol]

From an everyday user point of view I am still using a simple aluminium template I made in the 1970’s. You cut the leader in daylight so I don’t need a double sided template to fit round the film. The other end to fit the grip in the Leica cassette is cut in the end of the film protruding from the mouth of my Watson loader, which also dates from the 70’s.

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[wlaidlaw]

I know we could get away with a simple single sided template but I am a bit of a perfectionist, which I why I insist on all my classic Leica cameras being in perfect mechanical working order, even the slow speeds, which I never use. I would aim for something which apart from the missing Leitz logo, is as close to identical to the original ABLON and ANZOO as I can achieve. 

 

Wilson

[mikemgb]

For those intrerested, a print file for the ALBON is already available: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1951048

 

I have a plastic copy from this file.

[wlaidlaw]

Mike, 

 

Many thanks for that. What 3D printer do you use? I have been looking at getting one but it has to be mac compatible, which is a bit limiting. The Renishaw ones my son develops, are around £1,000,000 (no family discount  ), so a bit out of the budget. 

 

Wilson

[mikemgb]

Mike, 

 

Many thanks for that. What 3D printer do you use? I have been looking at getting one but it has to be mac compatible, which is a bit limiting. The Renishaw ones my son develops, are around £1,000,000 (no family discount  ), so a bit out of the budget. 

 

Wilson

 

I don't have a 3D printer but my employer has several, I just have to ask an Engineer nicely and they make me stuff. 

 

I have been looking at one fore home use as well but I have zero cad experience so I'm not sure I would get the best out of it.