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Leica iiif Canada Question


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Approximately at what point in iiif production in Canada were the spools marked 'Leitz Canada' ? I have two so-called ELC cameras, neither of which are marked Midland Ontario. One, a iiif, has an unmarked spool while the other, a 1954 vorlauf, is marked Leitz Canada.

 

These Canada marked spools are not commonly sold. Were they included with some but not all camera bodies ?

 

Finally, were any of the red scale elmar 5cm lenses also made in Ontario ?

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Thanks

 

So were the Canadian iiif's shipped to Wetzlar for mating with various lenses, boxing and then to retailers?

 

Or were the Canadian cameras more of a production trial and those cameras distributed through different channels in Canada and US ?

 

Lenses shipped to Midland from Wetzlar.

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Good questions, and I may only add more uncertainty to the post, but here is what I think: 

 

Finding good data on Midland production quantities is difficult. What they built and when is not well documented, at least for the average collector. Some cameras such as IIIf, M2 and M3 are listed in serial lists as, made in Canada. Whether they were just assembeled from parts from Wetzlar or mostly built from the ground up in Midland is not always clear. A very fiew IIIg's are Midland marked, I almost wonder if they are prototypes only.

 

What may be known is:

 

-postwar interaction with Leitz New York was chaotic at best, Wetzlar even threatened to stop all shipment to USA, some products were defaced in customs entry, distributor ownership went throught 3 or 4 owners until stabalized by Henry Mann. This occured from 1945 until 1952.

 

-Leitz understood that the west was going to be a large market, in 1950 they were already over 60% of sales.  The decision to build a North America production facility was firm. This process is well known, the selection of Midland Canada, the work by Gunther Leitz and the construction of the plant has been covered well.  The issue of import duties, close contact with customers and sales outlets was important.

 

-the first Canada product is reported to be the Summarit lens in 1952, with Wetzlar supplying the mechanical parts and Midland producing the glass and the asembly.  There are photos of the early unloading of lens grinding equipment from Wetzlar at Midland.  Later they acquired other production capability, maching, finishing and so on. Photos of plating baths in Midland are known.  I have a few leather cases marked Midland Canada, they are uncommon.

 

-by 1960 Midland was heavily involved in producing about 10 different Leitz lenses, and both the M2 and M3 as the IIIf was no longer offered.  This 1960 photo below shows a Midland photo of camera products they contributed to. Why the 35 Elmar stereo lens is in the photo is interesting, as I thought it was only a Wetzlar issue.  

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This same article in Objectiv magazine, also mentions Midlands' heavy contribution to military products, specifically mentiond are:  the well known 16 mm movie gun camera, riflescopes, gernade launchers, rangefinders, air reconisiance lenses, and military field guns.  The later KE-7, the M4 black chrome and anniversary camera are also known to many.

 

-very few cameras are marked "Midland" on the top plate, a few thousand are reported as Midland assembeled in the serial number lists.  It is probable that cameras were final assembeled in Midland using some Wetzlar parts and then direct shipped to USA or other west markets.

 

-surely someone knows more detail, and I would like to see it.

 

-below photo is my IIIf, marked Midland, a Midland Summarit, and it came with the "Leitz-Canada" film spool. Reportedly only 190 IIIF's were marked Midland, I have 28 in my data base.  I have only 20 some Midland marked Summarits recorded, and have not seen any total production numbers.

 

-as Midland produced lens such as the Summicron, Summilux, 125 Hektor, and others including the stereo Stemar the data is more clear.  They were a full fledged Leitz lens maker then.

 

-as to the "Canada" marked film spool, I agree it is not often seen.  It did come with my Midland IIf and I have a couple more. But I cannot say if they came with all camera bodies reportedly assembeled in Midland.  I don't think so, or we might see more of them.

It is a little hard to see, as they did not fill in the stamping with white paint.

 

 

My Leitz Canada knowledge is weak, maybe an "expert" can assist us and set the record straight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ELC assembled lllg cameras were also made without top plate markings.  You have to check the serial numbers to decide which bodies were made in Canada. I have a lllg, #845252 which is on the ELC list.   If you don't have the serial number list at hand, then there is another way to tell an ELC lllg body. This body did not have an ELC take up spool.

 

With the base plate off and the lens port facing away, look inside the right hand side of the body.  The serial number of the camera will be inscribed on the shutter cage.  If the serial number is inscribed parallel to the film plane, the body is assembled in Canada. If the serial number is inscribed vertically to the film plane, the body was not assembled in Canada.  I also have a lllf body that was assembled in Canada,(#773808 (it is on the ELC list), but it does not have any serial number inscribed on the right side cage. It does have an ELC take up spool.  One other ELC lllf body that I have seen did not have serial numbers inscribed.  Do any lllfs have this internal inscription???   Jim Lager's book,  V 1, p. 75, shows the correct markings.

 

Ciao,  Sully

Edited by Sully
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My 1957 Summarit 5cm 1500183 is marked Wetzlar and has Germany marked on the barrel also. I bought it from a Canadian seller, who claimed to have had it since new. I wonder where it was actually made?   :)

 

Wilson

 

PS It is graduated in Metres - when did Canada go metric? 

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My 1957 Summarit 5cm 1500183 is marked Wetzlar and has Germany marked on the barrel also. I bought it from a Canadian seller, who claimed to have had it since new. I wonder where it was actually made? :)

 

Wilson

 

PS It is graduated in Metres - when did Canada go metric?

They were feet and inches when I was there 66-69.

In the dealers I worked for we had the whole range for sale regardless of where it was made, although one would expect that German made items would have feet and meters focussing scales, certainly my lenses I bought there do.

Canadian made items were cheaper as there was naturally no import tax, as they were in the UK at the time as Commonwealth trading was duty free I think. The Summicron 35mm M3 I have cost less than $10 more than a German made 2.8 Summaron, we didn't sell many Summarons!

 

Gerry

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Thinking about my Canadian seller, he said he had 10 years on me, so in 1957/8, he could easily have been on military service and bought the lens in Europe - who knows. Was military service compulsory in Canada at that time like it was in the UK? In the UK that is why a lot of kids at school worked to get their Army Cadet Corps Certificates A and B, which meant you went straight in to the two year military service as an officer and avoided most of the square bashing. 

 

Wilson

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  • 4 years later...

Added another Midland engraved Leica IIIF to my collection to go with the one in post #5. These are getting pretty hard to find. Purchased from the original owner of Simcoe, Ontario only 21 miles from Midland. Used to photograph primarily aircraft, often under the name CAVU. Which stands for "Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited". I am trying to get more  information on the history, so if any forum members  have further  insight, please post.

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