Leica M10 Light meter underexposing

[Guest]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

"treat it as a real spot meter" - So has anyone here used an auxiliary spot meter in order to set manual exposure on the camera? Worth it?

 

I've found I've been using the Lumu App on my iPhone more and more with the M10. Having the ability to drag the Lumu spot ring around a scene and have the whole scene adjust on the phones display, to the exposure based on the position of the spot, really helps me get a very close to perfect shot first time.  With the M10 meter it just gives you a reading without altering the overall effect of that setting on the scene (until after the shot).

I bought the Lumu Dongle to for incident reading, colour temp etc but rarely use it.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Guest

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Guest tofu_man]

Not really - In that case set the camera to manual, measure the light in the essential area and happily shoot away.

 

 you obviously don't take photos in dynamic situations

 

...and what, for example, is the "essential area" when one is walking in and out of shadows & high contrast sunlit areas? Or through city streets at night? Or when an Israeli solder is getting annoyed at you? Or when taking photos of drug users?

 

In my experience,  there's not enough time to follow your rather prescriptive advice.

[Guest]

 you obviously don't take photos in dynamic situations

 

...and what, for example, is the "essential area" when one is walking in and out of shadows & high contrast sunlit areas? Or through city streets at night? Or when an Israeli solder is getting annoyed at you? Or when taking photos of drug users?

 

In my experience,  there's not enough time to follow your rather prescriptive advice.

 

I think the "essential area" when an Israeli soldier is getting annoyed at you is "somewhere else".

[jaapv]

 you obviously don't take photos in dynamic situations

 

...and what, for example, is the "essential area" when one is walking in and out of shadows & high contrast sunlit areas? Or through city streets at night? Or when an Israeli solder is getting annoyed at you? Or when taking photos of drug users?

 

In my experience,  there's not enough time to follow your rather prescriptive advice.

I think EV comp is rather fiddly at gunpoint. Personally I would have other things on my mind.

As for the first two - I find manual exposure the simplest and most accurate to use in such situations. It is just a question of who is in control: you or the camera.

And I have strong views on sniping photographs of homeless people and drugs users. Summarized as: not done.

[Eoin]

Camera in manual exposure set for ambient light.

Quick mental calculation of adjustment required for shadow or highlight detail one wishes to expose for outside of the norm.

(experience helps inform the decision)

Adjust accordingly with your preferred method Av/Tv

Review on screen ....

 

 

Seems far more simple than faffing around in menus to find and adjust exposure compensation.

[Guest tofu_man]

 

And I have strong views on sniping photographs of homeless people and drugs users. Summarized as: not done.

 

'Sniping'? That's a cheap shot

 

I do community work with the homeless because it's an issue I feel passionate about, and all my photos of drug use are taken with permission or in the open when doing deliveries to street-sleepers. My last exhibition grant for photo of drug users went to a rehab in St Louis.....$5K

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

That's fine with me, a completely different matter - but in that case you will agree that roaming the streets at night to get an "atmospheric" shot of a "characterful person" in "interesting circumstances" to try and win the Photoclub competition is a distasteful practice.

[dkmoore]

Isn't that street photography? Less trying to win photo club competition?

 

I tend to avoid taking pictures of people that have no character.

 

Now, their is a difference between snping and asking for permission and I do find taking pictures of the homeless distasteful unless its for charity or other productive means.

[jaapv]

Isn't that street photography? Less trying to win photo club competition?

 

I tend to avoid taking pictures of people that have no character.

 

Now, their is a difference between sniping and asking for permission and I do find taking pictures of the homeless distasteful unless its for charity or other productive means.

Exactly my point

[Gobert]

'Sniping'? That's a cheap shot

 

I do community work with the homeless because it's an issue I feel passionate about, and all my photos of drug use are taken with permission or in the open when doing deliveries to street-sleepers. My last exhibition grant for photo of drug users went to a rehab in St Louis.....$5K

This is a very confronting photo. Well, well done!

[dkmoore]

agreed, nice photo.

[Guest tofu_man]

thanks both.….and exposure compensation used. I keep it permanently set to -1/2 or -2/3

Edited August 16, 2018 by tofu_man

[WhiskeyVerb]

On 7/31/2018 at 9:34 AM, adan said:

The key point I would add to those so far, is illustrated by a.noctilux in post #10.

 

1) The M10's image processing in the camera imposes a very strong default contrast curve on the image data. That is, the shadows can look very dark straight from the camera, but so long as one is shooting .DNG (raw, 12/14-bit data) there is lots of actual detail there, that can be restored on the computer with a "curves" or "shadows" adjustment.

 

I have a theory about why Leica did that with the M10, but you have to know Leica's digital evolution for it to make sense. The CCD M8/M9 cameras had relatively low dynamic range, and contrasty, brilliant colors. When the first CMOS Leica (M typ 240) arrived, with extended DR, many users complained its pictures/colors were too "gray" and dull straight from the camera - not what they were accustomed to. With the M10, Leica decided, "OK, you want punchy M9 colors? Fine. Here they are!" with a stronger default contrast mapping. Fortunately, there is room to bring up the shadows in post-processing, without a lot of problem with additional "noise" (you're just getting back to the data as originally output by the sensor).

 

2) Are you using the glass "window" viewfinder? Or electronic viewing and composing (EVF, or Live-View on the back)?

 

If you are using the glass/frameline finder, then 1) there is only one metering mode actually available, no matter what you have selected in the menu, because it is hard-wired right into the construction of the camera, and 2) that mode is strongly center-weighted, as shown in Jaap's diagram in post #8. In reality, a "wide spot" meter more than "center weighted." Much closer in behavior to the old Nikon F3 meter than a Nikon FM2 meter. Or the film Ms you have used - it is roughly the same narrow area used ever since the M6 from 1986 (white painted spot on the shutter curtain).

 

See this diagram of ttl metering with the "classic" Leica M metering (which should also be in your M10 instruction manual): https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/224881-shooting-black-and-white-m7-camera-settings/?p=2567197

 

3) I did a test with the M10 "classic" meter against a hand-held Sekonic, and metering a gray card filling the metering area. Both gave the same exposure - a correct value for 18%-reflectance gray (120-ish on the digital 0-255 brightness scale). So the meter calibration is fine, but what it is pointed at has to been given more consideration than most "center-weighted" systems, that read the whole scene, and just give more weight to the center (but not only the center).

Great information and very helpful -  as i too am struggling with the M10 after migrating from the D700.   

I do have a question - should I set up the meter as center-weighted and forget it.  And then meter the scene and expose for what I want, then half press, recompose, and release the shutter? 

I have found that if I use the Multi-segment meter and consequently get the results I seek, It's so rare that I feel like I should go buy a winning lottery ticket. 

 

[jaapv]

The meter is always centre-weighed when using the OVF. The other modes can only be activated using the EVF or LCD   

[jdlaing]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The meter is always centre-weighed when using the OVF. The other modes can only be activated using the EVF or LCD   

You can set advanced metering mode and use the ovf  without using EVF mounted or the screen on the back. It’s also not necessary to activate live view. You get monster shutter lag but it works.

Edited December 15, 2019 by jdlaing

[jaapv]

Yes-as you say, it will go into a shutter dance, clearly not intended for practical photography. 

[jdlaing]

Just now, jaapv said:

Yes-as you say, it will go into a shutter dance, clearly not intended for practical photography. 

It’s a practical as Leica gets. It is useful from time to time but not as a steady diet.

[dickgillberg]

I work with my M10P the same way as my Canon 5D4. I trust the meter for the first frame and just with a flick of my thumb I set the right exposure if needed. Simple and fast without thinking too much.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M