Contrast and tonal range on the MM1

[jaapv]

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Let's discuss:

Why are there so many grey-in-grey and flat images in the MM1 image thread? With a bit of post-processing the MM1 can give a full tonal range.

 

My technique is:

 

Set white and black point in Levels

Adjust tonal range in Levels

Lift midtones in Curves

Set Curves to linear contrast

Dodge and burn

If desired, adjust contrast and brightness

 

Silver Efex will do this automatically, On1 and Luminar have presets. Except for dodge and burn, of course.

 

There is so much tonal information in the files that the OOC results will be flat.

 

 

 

Not for merit, but for illustration two recent shots:

 

 

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[jaapv]

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[colint544]

Good topic to discuss, Jaap. There is a wealth of information in those MM1 files, all right. I used to rely on Silver Efex Pro2 to add punch, but a couple of years ago, an update of Photoshop prevented it from plugging in, and I couldn't figure out how to make it work any more. I only ever added SFX2 as a layer, then pulled it back to suit the image.

 

Now I just use Photoshop, and a set of custom tools which preserve the highlights and shadows. I can click 'safe levels and contrast' and that makes the image less flat. I might click that twice if I feel the image needs it. But dodging and burning is what really bring an image alive for me. Trick, I think, is not to go too far. Because the files are so malleable, it's easy to do, and the picture can start to look unrealistic before it starts to break up.

 

It took me probably a couple of years to begin to learn how to tease the best from the MM1 RAW files. It's a most rewarding camera if you take the time to get the hang of it.

Edited July 30, 2018 by colint544

[IkarusJohn]

It was that range andtonality that convinced me to buy the Monochrom. I’m sure most will recall the complaints about the ‘flat’ DNG files from the camera at the start, then a bit of processing and the magic came out.

 

My Monochrom is still the best M camera I’ve used or owned.

[colint544]

Screenshot of Photoshop tools

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[colint544]

I might add that working on an image using layers prevents damage to the file, and is to be recommended.

[Jeff S]

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There are loads of tools within LR as well to alter tonality and contrast. For me, ImagePrint works well with LR to further optimize print rendering. The malleable MM files provide endless possibilities.

 

As I’ve written probably too many times already, the best tools remain between the ears.... a good eye and good judgment. Just as in the darkroom days. The techniques are easy to learn, but deciding when, where and to what degree to apply those techniques remains the hard part, just like taking a pic in the first place.

 

One needs to determine his/her own style, and the flatter OOC files from the MM require the user to ‘work’ those files more to achieve that end. But, once the goal is established, the flexible files are a blessing. The flip side is that one cannot use color channels in PP like with color based files, and lens filters are less flexible and a bit of a pain; and without them, contrast and tonality can sometimes be more difficult to control.

 

Jeff

Edited July 30, 2018 by Jeff S

[Jager]

Aye, remember when the Monochrom first hit the street?  All the angst about those flat files!

 

Pretty much any modern editing program will work.  And it only takes a few seconds to open the door into what those files truly contain.  It's not hard at all to get a full tonal range.

 

 

 

[jaapv]

Well, after all is said and done, I do think the Monochrom1 is the ultimate M camera. It certainly makes the MM2 not interesting to me. However, wouldn't it be awesome if Leica brought out an M10 Monochrom with an updated CCD sensor? 

Anyway, I think it is time for the CL, for all its perfection, to yield to the MM1 as everyday camera occasionally

[Jeff S]

However, wouldn't it be awesome if Leica brought out an M10 Monochrom with an updated CCD sensor?

 

CCD? Good luck with that. But I’d probably trade my MM1 for it!

 

I expect the M10M with CMOS next year (4 years from M246).

 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

Well, after all is said and done, I do think the Monochrom1 is the ultimate M camera. It certainly makes the MM2 not interesting to me. However, wouldn't it be awesome if Leica brought out an M10 Monochrom with an updated CCD sensor? 

Anyway, I think it is time for the CL, for all its perfection, to yield to the MM1 as everyday camera occasionally

 

 

The CL is of zero interest to me.  I prefer the TL2 in every respect.  It is my little go to camera when I want something to just sling over my shoulder.  Like Jeff, I don't see CCD sensors in Leica's future at all - it will all be CMOS til the next breakthrough.

 

I packed up my SL gear into my Peak Design backpack (with three zooms and the 50 Summilux, it weighs a ton), and locked in my gun safe.  I've resurrected my lovely leather Mono 9 dothebag and Monochrom with 28 Summaron-M and 50 Summilux-M ASPH as my daily carry.  

 

I love B&W and I'm so looking forward to just concentrating on the one fabulous camera ...

[jaapv]

I admire the TL from a distance, but the CL is my go-to camera. "The digital camera Barnack would have designed" is undoubtedly marketing fluff, but it does describe the camera well. And I agree that a CCD is unlikely, but for  a monochrome sensor it has very few drawbacks. My MM1 lives in its Kombitasche M Klein.

[AceVentura1986]

I have a preset in Lightroom hat I apply across the board to all photos at upload. I originally started it for the MM1 but then applied it by accident to some Canon photos and liked it so I use it routinely now.

 

Off memory: highlights -25; whites +25; clarity +25; and the tone curve is set in a cane shape. After upload I make further corrections, including often changing the tone curve to more of an “S” shape, with the center crossing the centerpoint in the graph.

 

I may then also add vignette and grain too, depending on how classical I want the image to look.

 

Anyway, it works for me. Here’s a link to some from New York: https://www.ralphventura.com/p316508877/e7e163d80

[jaapv]

That is a high clarity setting! My experience is that the clarity slider can easily create wide haloes in the image.

[AceVentura1986]

That is a high clarity setting! My experience is that the clarity slider can easily create wide haloes in the image.

Actually, my setting is 20, not 25. That was a typo. Still, it’s just a beginning as the final setting may be higher or lower, depending on the desired look. I do agree, though, that clarity must be sparingly used and is often overused.

[colint544]

I have found sometimes, that turning the clarity slider down a little can take the harsh edge off certain MM1 files. I attach a couple where I've done that, and little else.

 

I suppose it depends upon the image though - mostly I try to be extremely careful with the clarity slider.

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[Likaleica]

Jaap, to answer your question about why so many "Henri" photos on the forum appear flat, it has to be that some people just don't post-process much (if at all) and a few may actually prefer flat images.  But it is such an amazing camera that lives up to its nickname.

 

My typical workflow after import to LR (NO presets, I prefer to process each file individually) is highlights/whites/blacks/shadows.  Then tonal adjustments (curves, levels).  Spotting.  Minimal, if any, clarity.  I usually add a little vignette and then I dodge and burn, but not much.  Then, rarely necessary, the file takes a trip to Photoshop for special adjustments.  I like to put a very thin frame around my photos that I don't crop (like Henri) and I do that in SEFx2, and I use one of the SEFx2 presets if I don't like what I was able to achieve in LR

 

I've been on a wait list for the M10M, although I agree that a M10M with CCD and no rear screen would be the ultimate camera.  I rarely use Live View.  Probably not realistic to ask the a la carte team to make one.    Or how about this... An updated M9M?  With faster buffer and no rear screen?  Optical frame lines (3 windows).  They could do that and maybe less than 100 people would buy one.

 

I think this is going to be a highly sought after camera in the future.  The sad thing about digital cameras, however, is that they will have a lifespan because of lack of parts, etc.  Even batteries, since they are constantly changing.  Even Sd cards for the M9M will cease to be manufactured.  I just bought a M3 made the same year I was made 63 years ago.  That thing will never be obsolete.

 

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[dkmoore]

Let's discuss:

Why are there so many grey-in-grey and flat images in the MM1 image thread? With a bit of post-processing the MM1 can give a full tonal range.

 

 

I don't know. I just looked through the most recent 4 pages of MM1 images and I don't see all that many grey-in-grey flat images.

 

I won't argue that all of the images are "good."

 

I see a couple of images that could be considered flat but I believe that was the intention.

 

For instance:

 

[Likaleica]

As an aside I would like to say that my favorite thread on the entire forum, the one I go to first, is the Monochrom I shots thread.  Then I go to Colin's thread on what do we photograph on the streets.  I think the images in the Monochrom I thread, for the most part, are consistently amazing.

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Hallo,

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[MT710]

I struggled a lot with my MM1 files in LR (also using Silver Efex Pro) and by a rather random event I figured out Aperture runs on High Sierra. The OOC imports are quite decent, for me to an extent I have given up LR entirely. I realize this is out of maintenance software, yet since I only have the MM as digital camera, don't care that much.

Since presentation on screen is difficult in the forum, I spare any examples, but if you still have Aperture somewhere and some free hours, give it a try.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by MT710