Contrast and tonal range on the MM1

[Ernstk]

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I feel it is kitsch... My position is: if you want your image to look like film, use film.

That is not to say that things like adding a bit of grain to enhance sharpness, influence DOF or hide noise cannot be effective digital tools.

 

At times, I'd like the look of film but without all the work.

 

I read their process of calibration. It does seem quite rigorous but it might just be marketing fluff.

 

Ernst

[Likaleica]

Do you feel that the emulation isn't very accurate?

 

Ernst

 

For me I just get more pleasing results using LR then finishing it off in SEFx2.  And I kind of agree with Jaap but sometimes you want a Tri-X "look" but want the convenience of digital.  Sounds like that's the path that Salgado has taken

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[CharlesL]

... The DxO FilmPack product looks very interesting. Has anyone here used it?

 

They offered a version free for awhile, and I played with it. The program has enough controls that it has a learning curve; but I'd rather learn how to manipulate curves on the image directly than learn how to get the most out of FilmPack.

 

There is a general learning aid in the program. You can move a slider across an image with the unchanged portion on the left and the film-packed portion on the right, so you can train your eye to observe what change the simulation makes.

[dkmoore]

I'd also recommend the free google editing software which I believe was purchased by DXO? For 5 year old technology it still works excellent. They just released a new version but the old is very solid that I haven't upgraded.

 

I use it primarily for "dodge and burn" and it includes a ton of presets (AKA film packs).

[Guest tofu_man]

I'd also recommend the free google editing software which I believe was purchased by DXO? For 5 year old technology it still works excellent. They just released a new version but the old is very solid that I haven't upgraded.

 

I use it primarily for "dodge and burn" and it includes a ton of presets (AKA film packs).

 

if you mean Nik Silver Efex Pro then I agree.

 

While I mostly use Lightroom, SEP is a really useful tool, and isn't just about film emulations (which don't really emulate film, in my opinion). It's great for quickly flicking through different processing treatments to gauge their effects, and I prefer the grain & vignetting to Lightroom's. I like the structure tool sometimes as well.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would regard SEP or Film Pack as 'kitsch'. Obviously Salgado doesn't think so.

[dkmoore]

Yes, thank you. I was referring to Nik collection by google.

[jaapv]

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if you mean Nik Silver Efex Pro then I agree.

(

While I mostly use Lightroom, SEP is a really useful tool, and isn't just about film emulations (which don't really emulate film, in my opinion). It's great for quickly flicking through different processing treatments to gauge their effects, and I prefer the grain & vignetting to Lightroom's. I like the structure tool sometimes as well.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would regard SEP or Film Pack as 'kitsch'. Obviously Salgado doesn't think so.

I don't refer to software as "kitsch"; how could a tool be?

 

In calling digital film emulation by the photographer kitsch I follow this definition:

 

"the essence of kitsch is imitation: kitsch mimics its immediate predecessor with no regard to ethics—it aims to copy the beautiful, not the good."

(Hermann Broch)

[LichtUndDunkelheit]

 However, wouldn't it be awesome if Leica brought out an M10 Monochrom with an updated CCD sensor?

 

Awesome, yes - but not gonna happen.

 

Same for bringing back the M-E with CCD sensor.

[LichtUndDunkelheit]

I don't refer to software as "kitsch"; how could a tool be?

 

In calling digital film emulation by the photographer kitsch I follow this definition:

 

"the essence of kitsch is imitation: kitsch mimics its immediate predecessor with no regard to ethics—it aims to copy the beautiful, not the good."

(Hermann Broch)

 

I think its very easy to define kitsch: You want fruit and get sweets instead.

 

So instead of the real, healthy thing which has flavor and vitamins and fiber you get an emtpy, unhealthy sugarbomb.

 

Thats kitsch. Kitsch is art without any depth.

[Guest tofu_man]

I think its very easy to define kitsch: You want fruit and get sweets instead.

 

So instead of the real, healthy thing which has flavor and vitamins and fiber you get an emtpy, unhealthy sugarbomb.

 

Thats kitsch. Kitsch is art without any depth.

 

you won't like Odd Nerdrum's paintings then

 

'Nerdrum says that his art should be understood as kitsch rather than art as such. On Kitsch, a manifesto composed by Nerdrum, describes the distinction he makes between kitsch and art.^[2] Nerdrum's philosophy has spawned The Kitsch Movement among his students and followers, who call themselves kitsch painters rather than artists.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Nerdrum

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch_movement

[david strachan]

Kitsch is fun. There's good and bad.

...

[colint544]

When I first got my M Monochrom mk1, I used Silver Efex 2 on every single shot. I loved what it could do, and how it could bring a flat image to life with just a couple of clicks. When a colleague fiddled around with my MacBook Pro, trying to install a free piece of software, and accidentally deleted the Silver Efex Pro 2 software, I felt bereft at having to go back to the flat grey images. I'd tinker with them and try to get them to look punchy, but it wasn't working. I was getting banding and dark areas breaking up. I re-bought the Silver Efex plug in - £160 it cost at the time.

 

As time went by, I discovered how to apply Silver Efex Pro as a layer, and reduce its effect to around 30%, which gave a much more subtle effect. Eventually, I had to get the subscription version of Photoshop, and couldn't get the Silver Efex Pro plug-in (by this time a free download) to work with it. 

 

Now I don't miss Silver Efex Pro. I think I'm getting closer to mastering the files from the M Mono mk1 by just using Photoshop. I look back at some of my early M Mono pictures, and I don't like the heavy handed treatment I gave them. The fake grain, especially, detracts from a lot of them, where I used it. I've come to realise that there's no point in trying to make digital images look like film.

 

Film is great, but so is digital. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, and the M Monochrom mk1 is still a wonderful and unique camera. It takes a lot of learning, and I've a way to go, but I've really enjoyed the six years and counting learning curve.

 

https://www.instagram.com/colintempleton/

Edited August 22, 2018 by colint544

[IkarusJohn]

Whatever you’re doing, Colin, it’s working. I look forward to seeing your images.

[colint544]

Thanks, John - very kind. Glad you like the them.

[Likaleica]

Whatever you’re doing, Colin, it’s working. I look forward to seeing your images.

 

+1

[DwF]

When I first got my M Monochrom mk1, I used Silver Efex 2 on every single shot. I loved what it could do, and how it could bring a flat image to life with just a couple of clicks. When a colleague fiddled around with my MacBook Pro, trying to install a free piece of software, and accidentally deleted the Silver Efex Pro 2 software, I felt bereft at having to go back to the flat grey images. I'd tinker with them and try to get them to look punchy, but it wasn't working. I was getting banding and dark areas breaking up. I re-bought the Silver Efex plug in - £160 it cost at the time.

 

As time went by, I discovered how to apply Silver Efex Pro as a layer, and reduce its effect to around 30%, which gave a much more subtle effect. Eventually, I had to get the subscription version of Photoshop, and couldn't get the Silver Efex Pro plug-in (by this time a free download) to work with it. 

 

Now I don't miss Silver Efex Pro. I think I'm getting closer to mastering the files from the M Mono mk1 by just using Photoshop. I look back at some of my early M Mono pictures, and I don't like the heavy handed treatment I gave them. The fake grain, especially, detracts from a lot of them, where I used it. I've come to realise that there's no point in trying to make digital images look like film.

 

Film is great, but so is digital. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, and the M Monochrom mk1 is still a wonderful and unique camera. It takes a lot of learning, and I've a way to go, but I've really enjoyed the six years and counting learning curve.

 

https://www.instagram.com/colintempleton/

Colin,

 

This is reassuring to read. In principle, the idea of using presets is anathema to me and I use Photoshop exclusively. Occasionally I feel everything has come together with a file/image, just like the old days when a negative would just sing it's way into a really nice print. Also a friend who has had a very successful career as a photographer has commented favorably regarding the tonality of images I've sent to him to view.  All that said, your images and consistency are about the best I've seen with the Monochrom1 so this gives me a call to stay the course! I also take greater care in shooting to get the exposure right as that is so critical with this camera.

 

Here's to no plug-ins, just keep plugging away!

 

David

[Guest Nowhereman]

David - Sorry, but to me the fact that presets are "anathema" "is meaningless if you don't show an example of how great your work is with Photoshop; so is the fact that a friend "who has had a very successful career as a photographer" things highly of your work: we know nothing about his taste or about his judgments — so all this is just words. 

 

I no longer have an MM, but consistently found that I got better results — "better" in terms of the look I wanted — when I used Silver Efex, as opposed to using only Lightroom or Photoshop. I often want a relatively high contrast look.

 

Originally, I hadn't used Silver Efex for processing the image below because Lightroom gave me what I initially thought was a satisfactory look, and the image was not important for me. Last week, however, before posting it to Instagram, I decided to reprocess it with Silver Efex. In my view the image came out much better, particularly in terms of the look of the mid-tones in an overall dark context. I could not reproduce what I wanted in these tones using Lightroom of Photoshop alone.

 

It takes time to figure how to get results that you're looking for from Silver Efex — and you have to know what you want. Real darkroom experience and an idea of what you consider a good print is important. Within Silver Efex, I have six custom presets that I use depending on the tonality of the original image; and I also find that the V-Points are excellent for burning and dodging: for me, better than Photoshop masks or Lightroom "Radial Filters".

 

The image below was shot with the MM and Elmarit-21 ASPH at ISO 1250, f/4 and 1/125 sec.

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[DwF]

David - Sorry, but to me the fact that presets are "anathema" "is meaningless if you don't show an example of how great your work is with Photoshop; so is the fact that a friend "who has had a very successful career as a photographer" things highly of your work: we know nothing about his taste or about his judgments — so all this is just words. 

 

I no longer have an MM, but consistently found that I got better results — "better" in terms of the look I wanted — when I used Silver Efex, as opposed to using only Lightroom or Photoshop. I often want a relatively high contrast look.

 

Originally, I hadn't used Silver Efex for processing the image below because Lightroom gave me what I initially thought was a satisfactory look, and the image was not important for me. Last week, however, before posting it to Instagram, I decided to reprocess it with Silver Efex. In my view the image came out much better, particularly in terms of the look of the mid-tones in an overall dark context. I could not reproduce what I wanted in these tones using Lightroom of Photoshop alone.

 

It takes time to figure how to get results that you're looking for from Silver Efex — and you have to know what you want. Real darkroom experience and an idea of what you consider a good print is important. Within Silver Efex, I have six custom presets that I use depending on the tonality of the original image; and I also find that the V-Points are excellent for burning and dodging: for me, better than Photoshop masks or Lightroom "Radial Filters".

 

The image below was shot with the MM and Elmarit-21 ASPH at ISO 1250, f/4 and 1/125 sec.

_______________

Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

Nowhereman Instagram

Nowhereman,

 

Anathema is a strong word but rather than take it back I'll qualify to say that I only intended it as it applies to my usage. This is not to say that I might in some circumstances benefit from applying Silver Efex to a particular file.  The issue here for me is that it runs contrary to working with a neutral file/DNG. I am more comfortable using my sense of tonality as well as the vision I had when I made the exposure as a starting point rather than a preset that presupposes parameters (and a mix) from Zones  1-8.   I will concede that I have not spent much time with Silver Efex and that I may be missing something. I feel comfortable with results I am getting with PS.  And what should have been clear was my appreciation reading that Colin here uses PS plain and simple. 

 

When I do post here, it is not to show  "how great"my work is but in the spirit of sharing as part of the overall process. To that end, for me, the print is ultimately what counts, not a jpeg to be looked at on the monitor which could be compromised. My friend's support, was again speaking personally in terms of validation that is important to my process, not to suggest any greatness.  

 

Here are a couple of my images that I am pleased with.

 

[Guest Nowhereman]

David - I'm pleased with them as well. Like your tonality.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DwF]

Thank you sir!  Sorry to set you (and who knows who else) off with my smug choice of words!  I like your image as well here.   at some point I will look at the intricacies of Silver Efex.  I am also shooting X-Pro 2 and should be learning the new X-Transformer. Too much software so little time.....

 

David