90mm f4 and rangefinder macro limitations

[microview]

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At one time I had the later version of the 90mm f4 collapsible lens which turned out to be optically less good than my 90mm Summicron – so I sold it. However, this week I found at a London dealer's the earlier type Macro-Elmar-M complete with rangefinder fitment, all in mint condition. Optically the replacement is really excellent – and the front section doesn't slide out of its own accord, as some copies apparently do. But I was surprised to find the adapter is not compatible with other M lenses: you can't fit them as you could with the later macro adapter for live view. As it happens, the best I could do with flower studies was far poorer than using the Leica Q (non-macro setting), because of focus proximity limitations, so I shall consider the attachment of no use, be pleased with my lens and pleased also that the whole set-up cost £460 less than the current price for the lens on its own…

[microview]

moderators please delete!

Edited July 20, 2018 by microview

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[wattsy]

But I was surprised to find the adapter is not compatible with other M lenses: you can't fit them as you could with the later macro adapter for live view. 

 

You can fit any M lens to the original goggled Adaptor-M. Obviously only the 90 Macro Elmar-M will couple accurately with the RF mechanism but any lens can be focussed via live view if you are using a digital camera. The only limitation of the "old" macro adaptor compared with the new is that the latter provides more lens extension and, thus, a higher maximum reproduction ratio (1:2 vs. 1:3).

 

so I shall consider the attachment of no use

 

Your loss IMO. I find it extremely useful in that it extends the functionality of my M system greatly. I use it frequently with the 90 Macro Elmar-M on both film and digital cameras and with the 90 Thambar-M on a digital using live view to focus.

Edited July 20, 2018 by wattsy

[microview]

Must be some tolerance issue with mine then: the 90 Elmar fits easily; three M lenses from Leica and one from VC will not lock into the adapter at all.

[luigi bertolotti]

Must be some tolerance issue with mine then: the 90 Elmar fits easily; three M lenses from Leica and one from VC will not lock into the adapter at all.

No, is not a problem of tolerancing, imho… maybe it's worth to study a little on the matter… but the female M Mount of the goggled  macro adapter isn't a COMPLETELY normal M bayonet : virtually, it ought to be a std. M bayonet rotated 180° (the Elmar 90 must be mounted with the "red dot" at right, looking from top front) … BUT, the RF coupling is in the usual "North" position : I don't know what this means exactly, or if someone has detailed tech infos about (*)… but fact is that the adapter was advertised as  made for the Macro Elmar 90, stop... as for my experience, some other lenses can be mounted on (example of different aged items : Summarit 75 and "nano" Tele Elmarit 90, both OK) and others can not (example, Summicron 50 IV and Summilux 50 I)… and I think is even better not to try hard… made those pair of trials time ago... and concluded that the adapter IS MADE for the Macro Elmar, period.

 

(*) The M bayonet of the adapter has some little machinings that a normal bayonet has not… I haven't investigated in depth on this...

Edited July 20, 2018 by luigi bertolotti

[jdlaing]

I think it has to do with the diameter of the barrel.

[luigi bertolotti]

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You can fit any M lens to the original goggled Adaptor-M. ...

 

With due respect, I think this statement is wrong.

[microview]

No, is not a problem of tolerancing, imho… maybe it's worth to study a little on the matter… but the female M Mount of the goggled  macro adapter isn't a COMPLETELY normal M bayonet : virtually, it ought to be a std. M bayonet rotated 180° (the Elmar 90 must be mounted with the "red dot" at right, looking from top front) … BUT, the RF coupling is in the usual "North" position : I don't know what this means exactly, or if someone has detailed tech infos about (*)… but fact is that the adapter was advertised as  made for the Macro Elmar 90, stop... as for my experience, some other lenses can be mounted on (example of different aged items : Summarit 75 and "nano" Tele Elmarit 90, both OK) and others can not (example, Summicron 50 IV and Summilux 50 I)… and I think is even better not to try hard… made those pair of trials time ago... and concluded that the adapter IS MADE for the Macro Elmar, period.

 

(*) The M bayonet of the adapter has some little machinings that a normal bayonet has not… I haven't investigated in depth on this...

 

Thank you Luigi: I think you are absolutely correct. After Wattsy's comments I tried (vey gently) to fit other lenses and of my other Leicas only the 75mm Summicron APO would lock into place. However if did not seem able to do close focus. My 24/3.8 just would not fit at all; a Zeiss 35/2.8 would just partially enter the aperture but would not bed down for locking, and the same with a Voigtländer 40/1.2. With the 75 mm lens you would expect a greater macro enlargement with the adapter (as was the case when I had a Novoflex and M240 and tried for example 50mm lenses) but the lens focus seemed unable to go anywhere near its closer focus position as it engaged the adapter mechanism. Maybe I should ask Leica Mayfair to look at the adapter or just set it aside and use the Q for closeups!

Edited July 20, 2018 by microview

[a.noctilux]

No, is not a problem of tolerancing, imho… maybe it's worth to study a little on the matter… but the female M Mount of the goggled  macro adapter isn't a COMPLETELY normal M bayonet : virtually, it ought to be a std. M bayonet rotated 180° (the Elmar 90 must be mounted with the "red dot" at right, looking from top front) … BUT, the RF coupling is in the usual "North" position : I don't know what this means exactly, or if someone has detailed tech infos about (*)… but fact is that the adapter was advertised as  made for the Macro Elmar 90, stop... as for my experience, some other lenses can be mounted on (example of different aged items : Summarit 75 and "nano" Tele Elmarit 90, both OK) and others can not (example, Summicron 50 IV and Summilux 50 I)… and I think is even better not to try hard… made those pair of trials time ago... and concluded that the adapter IS MADE for the Macro Elmar, period.

 

(*) The M bayonet of the adapter has some little machinings that a normal bayonet has not… I haven't investigated in depth on this...

 

Only answer bolded text.

 

If we look at the rear of the Macro-Elmar-M 90mm lens, we can see the two "ranges" of RF coupling.

So it's a type of clever remake DR Summicron 50mm coupling, but here the lens must be mount with 180° rotating in place of "turning-pushing" to close range.

 

As side note, this adapter is meant to be used only with the Macro-Elmar-M 90mm for RF coupling, but may be used with some other lenses with liveview.

 

Sadly, I can not mount my beloved SOMNI (DR 50mm) on the adapter as the coupling of the DR protudes too far behind.

Only usable if insisted on DR range and limited range (LV use of course): I didn't insisted not to break something.

 

I did mount some other M lenses on the Macro-Adapter-M but not satisfied with their usabilities.

[wattsy]

With due respect, I think this statement is wrong.

 

 

Ok, fair enough. I have used the adaptor with a few of the lenses I own and rather assumed that all M lenses would mount without problem. I'll have a look and see what the problem might be with other lenses.

 

Other lenses aside, the OP should still find the adaptor useful with the 90 that it is designed for. I'm surprised that he/she found it "poor" for flower studies.

[luigi bertolotti]

… anyway, microview, to have a "normal" extension tube for M Mount, without any problem with any lens,and no unuseful goggles... there is always the "classic" solution  : OUFRO/16469... easy to find, available also brand new from chinese copiers, stackable even in quantity > 2 (I remember an impressive set of 5 or 6 stacked onto a long Telyt from a LUF member…  )

[microview]

Second try this morning and quick Q [non-macro] comparison. Wattsy – I surrender! Still blurry images with 75 Summicron-Apo but fine with the 90.

this pic macro

 

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[microview]

Second try this morning and quick Q [non-macro] comparison. Wattsy – I surrender! Still blurry images with 75 Summicron-Apo but fine with the 90.

this pic Leica q

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[a.noctilux]

When I discovered this nice combo

Macro-Elmar-M plus Macro-Adapter-M (on M8 in 2007)

 

Sorry for small sizes but I can see the IQ already on the modest 10M pix .

 

 

 

 

 

compared to

Apo-Summicron-M 75mm at closest focus 70cm (no adapter on M8), not bad