presbyopia Posted July 20, 2018 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been enjoying many images in the Leica Q Macro section. This has inspired me to begin experimentation with this aspect of my cherished Q. Several images posted were made with two attached Marumi 200 (+5) Achromat Macro close-up filters attached to the Q with lens set to Macro. Having just received my close-up filters, I have done a simple experiment that I thought to share with the forum. I know very little about the science of optics but wished to learn how these filters affect magnification, distortion, and vignetting of the images. (They also affect contrast and resolution but measuring that is beyond my abilities). The technical definition of a Macro lens is when the image on the sensor is (at least) as large as the actual object being photographed (ie. magnification of 1.0 (or 1:1). The Leica Q in Macro is not a true Macro lens by this definition – it is more technically described as a close-up lens. For me this does not matter as I find the close up images pleasing. I seek to explore what can be done with my Q and acknowledge there are other more refined tools in the Macro field for those who seek that level of magnification. My experiment is simple. Using a camera copy stand, I photographed 1mm ruled paper (actually EKG paper) at a distance of exactly 170mm from the sensor plane. This was done using native lens alone, a single +5 diopter filter, and then two +5 diopter filters (which I will refer to as +5x2 ). With the native lens in Macro mode, at 170 mm from sensor, the magnification is 0.235 (or 4.25:1). The image area captured is approximately 150mm X 100mm (or 6X4 inches). There is no visible distortion or vignetting ( ie. it appears to be very well corrected in camera). Attaching a single +5 filter, the magnification at 170mm from sensor is 0.3 (or 3.33:1). There is visible pin cushion distortion and vignetting in the corners. The distortion is fairly well corrected in Lightroom using a manual distortion correction setting of -17. I achieved only partial vignette correction. (This may be a function of my inadequate lighting.) The best I could correct was with a vignette correction of +19. These corrections were done by eye – others might have done better. Attaching two +5 diopters (+5x2), the magnification at 170mm from sensor is 0.387 (or 2.58:1). The pin cushion distortion and vignette were more prominent. Distortion correction required -28 and partial vignette correction was +30. In the two filter scenario, I was able to focus as close as 135mm from the sensor. At this distance, magnification was 0.493 (or 2:1). Partial vignette correction was +60. Distortion seemed to adequately correct at -22. In close-up and macro, the theoretic depth of field is determined by the factors of magnification, f-stop, and the size of the circle of confusion on the sensor. Lens focal length is not a major factor. From some references I have seen on the net, theoretic DOF in these magnification ranges are 2-3mm (f8), 3-4mm (f11), and 4-5mm(f16). My impression is that the higher the magnification, the softer the image but I do not know how to measure this. The narrow DOF may also contribute to this perception. Making photos has everything to do with making pleasing images and much less to do with knowing the precise magnification factor or extent of distortion. Much of the edge distortion will be masked by the prominent (and pleasing ) bokeh. However for the occasional image where the entire subject plane is within the DOF, knowing parameters for distortion correction may come in handy. Focus stacking will help enhance DOF but not correct for distortion. These measurements are predicated on a subject to sensor distance of 170mm. I do not see much sense to using the filters at longer distances as the native lens will provide a better image (at 170mm). As a beginner in close-up photography, using the Leica Q, I can see a need to train myself to ‘know’ the distance 170mm in front of the sensor plane. (BTW, there is a short white line on top of the Q that demarcates the sensor plane). I apologize for the length of this posting. I hope it is of some small value to at least a few. I encourage members to enjoy the images in the Leica Q Macro posting. Shown below are the measurement images at 170mm from sensor using two +5 diopters (+5x2); uncorrected and then corrected (using the settings noted above). Out of camera - graph photo (+5 x 2) filters, 170 cm from sensor Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Above photo corrected in Lightroom (distortion -28, vignette +30 ) 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Above photo corrected in Lightroom (distortion -28, vignette +30 ) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/286755-insights-in-to-close-up-filters-on-leica-q-macro-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3558628'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 Hi presbyopia, Take a look here Insights in to close-up filters on Leica Q - Macro mode. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bags27 Posted July 20, 2018 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2018 incredibly informative. Thanks so much! very much looking forward to more technical reports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica Guy Posted July 20, 2018 Share #3 Posted July 20, 2018 incredibly informative. Thanks so much! very much looking forward to more technical reports. +1. Fantastic to see the experimental results. Look forward to your photos. Demitris has inspired all of us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatlarx Posted August 9, 2018 Share #4 Posted August 9, 2018 Thanks for sharing..very useful and informative.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonomaBear Posted August 10, 2018 Share #5 Posted August 10, 2018 Maybe these can be used on the Q...? https://leicarumors.com/2018/08/09/leica-elpro-e52-close-up-lens-set-announced.aspx/ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted August 10, 2018 Share #6 Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) The Leica costs nearly 4x what the excellent Marumi costs ( if you buy 2 Marumi for 10x magnification. I don’t know if you can stack the Leica) . And since the Leica only extends to 1:1 “depending on focal length” the Marumi are more flexible. Marumi get really good reviews, and, honestly, the examples of what the Leica does aren’t, to my eyes at least, as good as what Dimitris, our Marumi master, posts. But I don’t see why they wouldn’t work on the Qs macro with manual focusing. Edited August 10, 2018 by bags27 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 11, 2018 Share #7 Posted August 11, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been enjoying many images in the Leica Q Macro section. This has inspired me to begin experimentation with this aspect of my cherished Q. Several images posted were made with two attached Marumi 200 (+5) Achromat Macro close-up filters attached to the Q with lens set to Macro. Having just received my close-up filters, I have done a simple experiment that I thought to share with the forum. I know very little about the science of optics but wished to learn how these filters affect magnification, distortion, and vignetting of the images. (They also affect contrast and resolution but measuring that is beyond my abilities). The technical definition of a Macro lens is when the image on the sensor is (at least) as large as the actual object being photographed (ie. magnification of 1.0 (or 1:1). The Leica Q in Macro is not a true Macro lens by this definition – it is more technically described as a close-up lens. For me this does not matter as I find the close up images pleasing. I seek to explore what can be done with my Q and acknowledge there are other more refined tools in the Macro field for those who seek that level of magnification. My experiment is simple. Using a camera copy stand, I photographed 1mm ruled paper (actually EKG paper) at a distance of exactly 170mm from the sensor plane. This was done using native lens alone, a single +5 diopter filter, and then two +5 diopter filters (which I will refer to as +5x2 ). With the native lens in Macro mode, at 170 mm from sensor, the magnification is 0.235 (or 4.25:1). The image area captured is approximately 150mm X 100mm (or 6X4 inches). There is no visible distortion or vignetting ( ie. it appears to be very well corrected in camera). Attaching a single +5 filter, the magnification at 170mm from sensor is 0.3 (or 3.33:1). There is visible pin cushion distortion and vignetting in the corners. The distortion is fairly well corrected in Lightroom using a manual distortion correction setting of -17. I achieved only partial vignette correction. (This may be a function of my inadequate lighting.) The best I could correct was with a vignette correction of +19. These corrections were done by eye – others might have done better. Attaching two +5 diopters (+5x2), the magnification at 170mm from sensor is 0.387 (or 2.58:1). The pin cushion distortion and vignette were more prominent. Distortion correction required -28 and partial vignette correction was +30. In the two filter scenario, I was able to focus as close as 135mm from the sensor. At this distance, magnification was 0.493 (or 2:1). Partial vignette correction was +60. Distortion seemed to adequately correct at -22. In close-up and macro, the theoretic depth of field is determined by the factors of magnification, f-stop, and the size of the circle of confusion on the sensor. Lens focal length is not a major factor. From some references I have seen on the net, theoretic DOF in these magnification ranges are 2-3mm (f8), 3-4mm (f11), and 4-5mm(f16). My impression is that the higher the magnification, the softer the image but I do not know how to measure this. The narrow DOF may also contribute to this perception. Making photos has everything to do with making pleasing images and much less to do with knowing the precise magnification factor or extent of distortion. Much of the edge distortion will be masked by the prominent (and pleasing ) bokeh. However for the occasional image where the entire subject plane is within the DOF, knowing parameters for distortion correction may come in handy. Focus stacking will help enhance DOF but not correct for distortion. These measurements are predicated on a subject to sensor distance of 170mm. I do not see much sense to using the filters at longer distances as the native lens will provide a better image (at 170mm). As a beginner in close-up photography, using the Leica Q, I can see a need to train myself to ‘know’ the distance 170mm in front of the sensor plane. (BTW, there is a short white line on top of the Q that demarcates the sensor plane). I apologize for the length of this posting. I hope it is of some small value to at least a few. I encourage members to enjoy the images in the Leica Q Macro posting. Shown below are the measurement images at 170mm from sensor using two +5 diopters (+5x2); uncorrected and then corrected (using the settings noted above). Out of camera - graph photo (+5 x 2) filters, 170 cm from sensor Grid_10diop_170cm.jpg Above photo corrected in Lightroom (distortion -28, vignette +30 ) Grid_10d_170cm_corrected.jpg Good experiment. The vignetting comes from the edge of the filter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zampelis Posted August 14, 2018 Share #8 Posted August 14, 2018 Oh my, I can't believe I missed this thread!!! Thank you so much for your invaluable information and the time you spent for the measurements!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orguy Posted September 28, 2019 Share #9 Posted September 28, 2019 It seems people are recommending the Murami 5 filter. I found this link where excellent closeup work has been done with that setup : https://www.leica-camera.blog/2017/10/09/botanical-beauty/ my question concerns a statement she made in this blog about using the 52 mm size rather than 49 that fits the Q2: I add 52 mm +5 and +3 Marumi macro lenses so that I can get closer to the subject. I use the larger size macro lenses to avoid or keep any vignetting to the outer edges. I have several +5 and +3 macro lenses so that I can create the unique magnification I want. would I better off as she says using 52mm to avoid vignetting? Does anyone have experience with is? *Do you still recommend the Murami as the go to close up filter?* Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted September 28, 2019 Share #10 Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Orguy said: It seems people are recommending the Murami 5 filter. I found this link where excellent closeup work has been done with that setup : https://www.leica-camera.blog/2017/10/09/botanical-beauty/ my question concerns a statement she made in this blog about using the 52 mm size rather than 49 that fits the Q2: I add 52 mm +5 and +3 Marumi macro lenses so that I can get closer to the subject. I use the larger size macro lenses to avoid or keep any vignetting to the outer edges. I have several +5 and +3 macro lenses so that I can create the unique magnification I want. would I better off as she says using 52mm to avoid vignetting? Does anyone have experience with is? *Do you still recommend the Murami as the go to close up filter?* why not order a couple of each from Amazon and experiment with both? and then let us know. you can always return what you don't like. as to recommending, sure: they are very likely the best outside of the Leica lens itself Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2019 Share #11 Posted September 29, 2019 vor 10 Stunden schrieb Orguy: Does anyone have experience with is? i use the +5 Marumi /49mm i haven’t really noticed any vignetting or color probs or something till yet Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orguy Posted September 29, 2019 Share #12 Posted September 29, 2019 Thank you rk1, that is important,. Not sure if she was saying we shoild use the wider 52 mm . Not, in your experience. i gather! An extra step up adapter is not appealing. Good. So just get the 49 mm 5 mm filter and quit thinking, it sounds like the consensus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2019 Share #13 Posted September 29, 2019 (edited) this one, is ooc , with the Marumi +5 without LR @Orguy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 29, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/286755-insights-in-to-close-up-filters-on-leica-q-macro-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3827724'>More sharing options...
Leica Guy Posted September 29, 2019 Share #14 Posted September 29, 2019 16 hours ago, bags27 said: why not order a couple of each from Amazon and experiment with both? and then let us know. you can always return what you don't like. as to recommending, sure: they are very likely the best outside of the Leica lens itself Agree. Please do and report back to us. Return the one that is inferior. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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