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Option one or option two - help me decide on which S


geetee1972

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Sorry, I hate GAS threads of which this is one, but I would appreciate your thoughts and considerations with the following options. Overall, I am rather smitten by my experience of the S (006) I borrowed. That is now back with the shop but still unsold. I have two options that both require the purchase to be self financing, i.e. by selling other kit to do it:

 

Option One: buy the type 006 and run it with the SL and existing 50SL and Zeiss 35mm 1.4ZM. I would have to lose my MP 240 in this trade

Option Two: buy a type 007 (new but discounted) and have it as my only camera with a 70mm Summarit. That would mean trading in everything else I own gear wise, the MP, SL, lenses, grip etc.

 

I can weigh up the pros and cons but would greatly appreciate alternative perspectives.

 

One key question I have is whether the 'look' I have fallen for with the type (006) is the result of it being a CCD sensor. There is something wonderful about the colour and tonal range. If the S also does this, as well as adding in more DR then great.

 

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Depends on what you shoot, I have not used my extensive M kit much since I got an S(007), I needed it for lower light when I used my S2-P which has similar high ISO performance to the S(006).  I much prefer the S results and found little difference in colours moving from CCD to CMOS.  Size.weight and speed of use my favour the FF cameras, also they are better at low shutter speeds (I aim for at least 1/2xFL for a shutter speed but prefer 1/3xFL and I try to never shoot the 120mm at less than 1/500th...).

 

I would probably look at the S(006) and see how you get on, buy more lenses etc, while still keeping current workflow.  S(007) prices are likely to keep decreasing.....

 

john

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Depends on what you shoot, I have not used my extensive M kit much since I got an S(007), I needed it for lower light when I used my S2-P which has similar high ISO performance to the S(006).  I much prefer the S results and found little difference in colours moving from CCD to CMOS.  Size.weight and speed of use my favour the FF cameras, also they are better at low shutter speeds (I aim for at least 1/2xFL for a shutter speed but prefer 1/3xFL and I try to never shoot the 120mm at less than 1/500th...).

 

I would probably look at the S(006) and see how you get on, buy more lenses etc, while still keeping current workflow.  S(007) prices are likely to keep decreasing.....

 

john

 

My work is all portraiture but it's not studio based and its a mixture of formal, i.e. posed, and candid/reportage style work. It is however all outdoors, as I find people and in the moment. If I went for the 007 I would have to have something small and compact to replicate the reportage style part of my work.

 

You make a good point about S (007) prices starting their decline now.

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The pull of convenience has moved me from the 006 to the 007, and lately, to the X1D. Convenience does not translate into enjoyment, however. I enjoyed shooting the 006 most of all. The lack of live view means that you are always looking through the glorious OVF.

 

While the high ISO abilities of the other cameras will get pictures the 006 can't get, in bad light, the light is ... bad. Only real night time scenes benefit, and if you don't shoot those, you'll want to be at low ISO anyway.

 

All just my opinions,

 

Matt

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I went from S2 to S006 to S007. I don't see much difference between CCD and CMOS, although I know some people think they do. To me this is a bit like audiophiles hearing differences between power cables.

 

What IS different, is the versatility of the S007, with increased ISO performance (and live view), the usage envelope of the S007 is far greater than the S006. If this would be you only/main camera, I would think this is important.

 

PS: If there is any truth to the rumours of S007 being upgradeable to S008/S3, this may affect the used price (even if it turns out not to be true, eventually).

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The pull of convenience has moved me from the 006 to the 007, and lately, to the X1D. Convenience does not translate into enjoyment, however. I enjoyed shooting the 006 most of all. The lack of live view means that you are always looking through the glorious OVF.

 

While the high ISO abilities of the other cameras will get pictures the 006 can't get, in bad light, the light is ... bad. Only real night time scenes benefit, and if you don't shoot those, you'll want to be at low ISO anyway.

 

All just my opinions,

 

Matt

 

I think one important benefit of better ISO performance is the ability to adjust shutter speed. MF Is more sensitive to camera shake, so you need faster shutter to nail the image.

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On the CCD vs CMOS color, I've always been a CCD fan, but after playing with LR, I now think I just preferred the default settings of the M9 and 006. It's possible to adjust contrast and color settings to get CMOS very close to the 006 - even the X1D, which has very different starting point.

 

BTW, why isn't there a "saturation contrast" control? Instead of the x-axis going from dark to light, have it go from unsaturated to saturated. The Leica/Hasselblad color rendering difference is largely a higher saturation contrast in the Hasselblad. The only way I can adjust those in LR is to increase Vibrance (which saturates the less-saturated colors) and decrease overall Saturation.

 

--Matt

Edited by mgrayson3
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BTW, why isn't there a "saturation contrast" control? Instead of the x-axis going from dark to light, have it go from unsaturated to saturated. The Leica/Hasselblad color rendering difference is largely a higher saturation contrast in the Hasselblad. The only way I can adjust those in LR is to increase Vibrance (which saturates the less-saturated colors) and decrease overall Saturation.

 

Actually, curves in Lab color space will do it if exactly the same curves are applied to both a and b channels. This is the famous "canyon wall" treatment. When the whole picture consists of similar shades of mildly saturated red/orange, apply strong contrast to the a and b channels and the canyon looks more interesting.

 

Sorry for going OT,

 

M

Edited by mgrayson3
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Sorry, I hate GAS threads of which this is one, but I would appreciate your thoughts and considerations with the following options. Overall, I am rather smitten by my experience of the S (006) I borrowed. That is now back with the shop but still unsold. I have two options that both require the purchase to be self financing, i.e. by selling other kit to do it:

 

Option One: buy the type 006 and run it with the SL and existing 50SL and Zeiss 35mm 1.4ZM. I would have to lose my MP 240 in this trade

Option Two: buy a type 007 (new but discounted) and have it as my only camera with a 70mm Summarit. That would mean trading in everything else I own gear wise, the MP, SL, lenses, grip etc.

 

I can weigh up the pros and cons but would greatly appreciate alternative perspectives.

 

One key question I have is whether the 'look' I have fallen for with the type (006) is the result of it being a CCD sensor. There is something wonderful about the colour and tonal range. If the S also does this, as well as adding in more DR then great.

Geitar

If you plan to use the camera mainly for portraiture then you are not going to need live view......saying that I used both my S006 a d S007 for portraiture and without a doubt the S007 is better........it's faster, you get better shutter speeds due to the higher ISO capacity,.....so if I were you I would forget the S006 and get yourself a S007......I'm keeping mine now as I just like to use it now and then

 

Neil

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I haven't

So you’re considering switching ENTIRELY to a camera you’ve never tried? It can be demo-ed the same way as the S006, which is what I would do before fully committing.

 

But with an S, I’d always want a backup system, and the SL you already own is ideal for that (menu and controls, lens compatibility, etc).

 

Jeff

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The SL is great for portraits. Very fast AF, perfect skin tone (well, I like it). My BIL, who is a portrait photog, is using it more and more over the S. He can print 30x40 from the SL, and the results are stunning.

 

I'm not a portrait guy, but got this snap of a lovely young lady about to go to her high-school prom. SL+24-90. Almost straight OOC:

40912237310_a6e90d9619_b.jpg

 

--Matt

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The S007 AF will be slower than the SL. If you think you will need fast AF sometimes then going 007-only is a bad idea.

+1. I like my S006, but I’m using the SL much more. The difference between the S006 and the S007 is not that big that I would forgo all other cameras if I had an S007.

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Difficult choices indeed!

 

I would favor the 007 over the 006 because of better ISO and live view... 

I would counsel you to wait a few months as an 008 may, repeat, may be on the way and the 007 price will drop..

I would also urge you to borrow a 007, while I found the 007 to be a significant improvement as the low ISO of the 006 was an annoyance for me as I do a lot of travel photography w/o tripod in many cases... However, you may not need the additional ISO boost or the live view...

So think it through and decide.

Albert  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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So you’re considering switching ENTIRELY to a camera you’ve never tried? It can be demo-ed the same way as the S006, which is what I would do before fully committing.

 

But with an S, I’d always want a backup system, and the SL you already own is ideal for that (menu and controls, lens compatibility, etc).

 

Jeff

No I would demo it like I have the S (006) before hand.

 

 

But with an S, I’d always want a backup system, and the SL you already own is ideal for that (menu and controls, lens compatibility, etc).

 

This is the most compelling argument for going with the (006); I can keep the SL and lenses if I did that. If I went for the (007) I would have to sell everything and still have a big chunk of balance outstanding.

 

 

The S007 AF will be slower than the SL. If you think you will need fast AF sometimes then going 007-only is a bad idea.

 

I don't need fast AF - the AF on the (006) for example is fast enough.

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I think should wait for the S3 or something and see what's what.

 

But at the meantime, try to snatch up a couple of S lens a hugely discounted price to use with an adaptor on the SL. Then you can decide later.

 

S007 is good, but not as special as S006, particularly, if you intend to use this a certain way, i.e., only on a tripod, in my opinion.

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Also, the inherent inaccuracy of the SLR design (mirror box tolerance, AF module tolerance etc) really let an otherwise very sharp lens system down sometimes. S007 might help with the Liveview, but it's inconvenient to handheld use when in LV. Hence I hope S3 will be a large version of the SL.

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