Moving from Nikon D750 to Leica .. Advice

[wosamko]

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Dear all,

 

I hope you are all OK,

 

I need advice from you before money loss.

 

1- What Leica camera has an image quality equal or better than Nikon D750. I am interested in Sharpness and noise or ISO?

2- I see SL has more features than M10, then Why M10 is more expensive than SL?

 

Kindest wishes,

 

Wesam

[jaapv]

Welcome to the forum.

 

If you have these questions, I can only answer with a counter-question: Why are you contemplating a move to Leica?  Nikon has excellent image quality and plenty of features.

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[thomasstellwag]

reading your post, I understand, that you want to go from the state of the art mirror camera to a state of the art mirrorless camera with 24MP - is this right?

your 2nd question shows a bit (sorry), that you have not yet investigated a lot in the difference of mirrorless and rangefinder

make sure, you can live without autofocus, or leave the M out of your plans

make sure, you are willing to invest a lot of money in 2 AF zoom lenses for the SL, or consider a Sony - here the lenses are slightly above Nikon prices

go to a shop and test it, have a look on the overall system, camera with  lens, for example with 50mm 1.4 or 85mm 1.4 and you will see, that the mirrorless is as heavy and as big as your actual cam - then  start to rethink

my proposal: add a used M and 1 or 2 lenses and start to see the fun with rangefinder as a different system to your DSLR, you will probably keep both ( I did)

Edited July 16, 2018 by thomasstellwag

[cp995]

Did you ever work with a Rangefinder?

Berfore asking for ISO and sharpnes, you should try it at your local dealer.

Beside this, Leica M is the only digital RF camera and so without competition.

Most users here buy them because of the RF; other technical features are not the main thing ...

 

If you don't like RF photografie (after testing) you can think about the Leica SL, which is a modern FF DSLM.

Next: Wait some days as Nikon will announce a FF-DSLM too!

[Narsuitus]

What lenses?

 

What subjects?

 

If I were in your position, I would be looking at the Leica M10, Nikon D810, and Nikon D850.

[Clactonian]

I am a firm believer in 'horses for courses' and am fortunate enough to own a D750, SL601 and M240, buying the Nikon first.  Each has its strengths and weaknesses. 

The D750 is the last of a long line of digital Nikons I have owned so I am familiar with the menu system and controls. Its strengths are in low light and moving subjects, but the overall image quality is high even if the build quality is not up there with the Leicas. The downside for me is an overcomplicated set of controls and menu system, particularly in comparison to the SL which is a revelation.

Image quality from the SL with Leica or Zeiss glass is stunning but I am less confident in its low light and moving subject ability. It is good but in my opinion not up there with the Nikon.

Having bought the M240 as my first Leica, more of that in a minute, I have several manual lenses and these are a joy to use on the SL where all of the mirrorless advantages come into play with the superb EVF and all the accompanying features, particularly viewfinder magnification and focus peaking. It is such a simple camera to use despite the myriad of features.

The M240 is a totally different experience, the rangefinder focussing, the paucity of features, and basic controls, mastery of which will produce stunning images is also a joy to use. It has its limitations so for me it's at its best as a walk around camera.

All three get used regularly. The Nikon has never let me down image wise but it can't compare with the pleasure I derive from using the Leicas.

The best advice you have been given so far is to get to a dealer and try the Leicas. It won't take long for you to decide if either is for you.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Clactonian

[earleygallery]

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Dear all,

 

I hope you are all OK,

 

I need advice from you before money loss.

 

1- What Leica camera has an image quality equal or better than Nikon D750. I am interested in Sharpness and noise or ISO?

2- I see SL has more features than M10, then Why M10 is more expensive than SL?

 

Kindest wishes,

 

Wesam

 

I think you need to do more research on your options as you don't seem to know the difference between and SL and M10 which are completely different types of camera, and you don't say what it is from a Leica that you want (which your Nikon doesn't provide).

 

Study the Leica website, visit a dealer and handle the cameras.

[pgh]

Dear all,

 

I hope you are all OK,

 

I need advice from you before money loss.

 

1- What Leica camera has an image quality equal or better than Nikon D750. I am interested in Sharpness and noise or ISO?

2- I see SL has more features than M10, then Why M10 is more expensive than SL?

 

Kindest wishes,

 

Wesam

1 - The easy answer is No leica that you mention. The S (medium format) would be the only one with a discernable difference. You may get slightly more noticeable sharpness depending on the lens you use, but in terms of noise, dynamic range etc the Nikon will win.

2 - Features do not translate into a higher price. All Leicas are unreasonably priced if you consider their feature set compared to other cameras. They are not faster, they do not have better sensors, and at this point, it's hard to argue even that they have better lenses. Leica is a small company, it costs them more to produce cameras. They make things no one else offers, and it takes them longer and much of it is done by hand. You're not paying for features. 

 

To be frank, given your unfamiliarity with the system it's probably not for you, unless you have money to burn. Leicas only make sense in my opinion if you know exactly why you want to use it. You would never buy it because it is faster, has better IQ, has more features, etc etc. The M is the only truly unique digital system they sell, so to me that's the most worth the cost out of anything they sell. I would buy a Sony A7 anything before an SL (if you want the best FF mirrorless). I would buy a Pentax, Fuji GFX or a Hassy before an S (If you want the best MF value. I would buy a Fuji before a CL/TL (for crop sensor, small form but good IQ). I wouldn't buy anything before an M because there is no other choice. 

[Jeff S]

One could also argue that Leica cameras are distinguished by class leading viewfinders (the S OVF, the SL EVF and of course the M), as well as simple and direct control interfaces, which easily accommodate manual use. The robust build quality is also apparent, although reliability doesn’t necessarily follow.

 

Jeff

[charles_nl]

I think you sum it up in your last sentence quite nicely.  Me - an amateur.  I bought the D750 about 1.5 year ago, after buying digital rubbish since I finished using my a Nikon FE ~2000.  So I could use my lenses again.  It's a fine camera, once you know all the menu's (which I do not).  And for some specific cases, I still use it (fast, autofocus, 200mm lens, etc).  But then I bought my first ever Leica (an M10) 10 months ago and I am so happy with it as this camera is not more clever than I am.  It's like my old FE but digital.  It is far too expensive, its quality is superb, I still struggle with the range finder, but I enjoy it tremendously.  Maybe an FE with a replacement embedded digital pack would give the same pleasure but that doesn't exist (yet).  The D750 is a complex computer with optics.

 

Charles

1 - The easy answer is No leica that you mention. The S (medium format) would be the only one with a discernable difference. You may get slightly more noticeable sharpness depending on the lens you use, but in terms of noise, dynamic range etc the Nikon will win.

2 - Features do not translate into a higher price. All Leicas are unreasonably priced if you consider their feature set compared to other cameras. They are not faster, they do not have better sensors, and at this point, it's hard to argue even that they have better lenses. Leica is a small company, it costs them more to produce cameras. They make things no one else offers, and it takes them longer and much of it is done by hand. You're not paying for features. 

 

To be frank, given your unfamiliarity with the system it's probably not for you, unless you have money to burn. Leicas only make sense in my opinion if you know exactly why you want to use it. You would never buy it because it is faster, has better IQ, has more features, etc etc. The M is the only truly unique digital system they sell, so to me that's the most worth the cost out of anything they sell. I would buy a Sony A7 anything before an SL (if you want the best FF mirrorless). I would buy a Pentax, Fuji GFX or a Hassy before an S (If you want the best MF value. I would buy a Fuji before a CL/TL (for crop sensor, small form but good IQ). I wouldn't buy anything before an M because there is no other choice. 

[harryzet]

why not. its your nerves, not mine

[magixaxeman]

Maybe an FE with a replacement embedded digital pack would give the same pleasure but that doesn't exist (yet).  The D750 is a complex computer with optics.

 

Charles

 

 

It does in a way in the form of the Nikon DF.

[bags27]

It does in a way in the form of the Nikon DF.

until the release of the Nikon mirrorless over the next couple of months (hoping!), the dF is the only Nikon I'd consider for my legacy glass. But it falls just a bit short of my Nikon FE, which I still use, or my Leica Q.

[wosamko]

Welcome to the forum.

 

If you have these questions, I can only answer with a counter-question: Why are you contemplating a move to Leica?  Nikon has excellent image quality and plenty of features.

 

 

reading your post, I understand, that you want to go from the state of the art mirror camera to a state of the art mirrorless camera with 24MP - is this right?

your 2nd question shows a bit (sorry), that you have not yet investigated a lot in the difference of mirrorless and rangefinder

make sure, you can live without autofocus, or leave the M out of your plans

make sure, you are willing to invest a lot of money in 2 AF zoom lenses for the SL, or consider a Sony - here the lenses are slightly above Nikon prices

go to a shop and test it, have a look on the overall system, camera with  lens, for example with 50mm 1.4 or 85mm 1.4 and you will see, that the mirrorless is as heavy and as big as your actual cam - then  start to rethink

my proposal: add a used M and 1 or 2 lenses and start to see the fun with rangefinder as a different system to your DSLR, you will probably keep both ( I did)

 

 

Did you ever work with a Rangefinder?

Berfore asking for ISO and sharpnes, you should try it at your local dealer.

Beside this, Leica M is the only digital RF camera and so without competition.

Most users here buy them because of the RF; other technical features are not the main thing ...

 

If you don't like RF photografie (after testing) you can think about the Leica SL, which is a modern FF DSLM.

Next: Wait some days as Nikon will announce a FF-DSLM too!

 

 

What lenses?

 

What subjects?

 

If I were in your position, I would be looking at the Leica M10, Nikon D810, and Nikon D850.

 

 

I am a firm believer in 'horses for courses' and am fortunate enough to own a D750, SL601 and M240, buying the Nikon first.  Each has its strengths and weaknesses. 

The D750 is the last of a long line of digital Nikons I have owned so I am familiar with the menu system and controls. Its strengths are in low light and moving subjects, but the overall image quality is high even if the build quality is not up there with the Leicas. The downside for me is an overcomplicated set of controls and menu system, particularly in comparison to the SL which is a revelation.

Image quality from the SL with Leica or Zeiss glass is stunning but I am less confident in its low light and moving subject ability. It is good but in my opinion not up there with the Nikon.

Having bought the M240 as my first Leica, more of that in a minute, I have several manual lenses and these are a joy to use on the SL where all of the mirrorless advantages come into play with the superb EVF and all the accompanying features, particularly viewfinder magnification and focus peaking. It is such a simple camera to use despite the myriad of features.

The M240 is a totally different experience, the rangefinder focussing, the paucity of features, and basic controls, mastery of which will produce stunning images is also a joy to use. It has its limitations so for me it's at its best as a walk around camera.

All three get used regularly. The Nikon has never let me down image wise but it can't compare with the pleasure I derive from using the Leicas.

The best advice you have been given so far is to get to a dealer and try the Leicas. It won't take long for you to decide if either is for you.

 

 

I think you need to do more research on your options as you don't seem to know the difference between and SL and M10 which are completely different types of camera, and you don't say what it is from a Leica that you want (which your Nikon doesn't provide).

 

Study the Leica website, visit a dealer and handle the cameras.

 

 

1 - The easy answer is No leica that you mention. The S (medium format) would be the only one with a discernable difference. You may get slightly more noticeable sharpness depending on the lens you use, but in terms of noise, dynamic range etc the Nikon will win.

2 - Features do not translate into a higher price. All Leicas are unreasonably priced if you consider their feature set compared to other cameras. They are not faster, they do not have better sensors, and at this point, it's hard to argue even that they have better lenses. Leica is a small company, it costs them more to produce cameras. They make things no one else offers, and it takes them longer and much of it is done by hand. You're not paying for features. 

 

To be frank, given your unfamiliarity with the system it's probably not for you, unless you have money to burn. Leicas only make sense in my opinion if you know exactly why you want to use it. You would never buy it because it is faster, has better IQ, has more features, etc etc. The M is the only truly unique digital system they sell, so to me that's the most worth the cost out of anything they sell. I would buy a Sony A7 anything before an SL (if you want the best FF mirrorless). I would buy a Pentax, Fuji GFX or a Hassy before an S (If you want the best MF value. I would buy a Fuji before a CL/TL (for crop sensor, small form but good IQ). I wouldn't buy anything before an M because there is no other choice. 

 

 

One could also argue that Leica cameras are distinguished by class leading viewfinders (the S OVF, the SL EVF and of course the M), as well as simple and direct control interfaces, which easily accommodate manual use. The robust build quality is also apparent, although reliability doesn’t necessarily follow.

 

Jeff

 

 

I think you sum it up in your last sentence quite nicely.  Me - an amateur.  I bought the D750 about 1.5 year ago, after buying digital rubbish since I finished using my a Nikon FE ~2000.  So I could use my lenses again.  It's a fine camera, once you know all the menu's (which I do not).  And for some specific cases, I still use it (fast, autofocus, 200mm lens, etc).  But then I bought my first ever Leica (an M10) 10 months ago and I am so happy with it as this camera is not more clever than I am.  It's like my old FE but digital.  It is far too expensive, its quality is superb, I still struggle with the range finder, but I enjoy it tremendously.  Maybe an FE with a replacement embedded digital pack would give the same pleasure but that doesn't exist (yet).  The D750 is a complex computer with optics.

 

Charles

 

 

why not. its your nerves, not mine

 

Dear all,

Reasons for movement:

Weight, compact and avoid racism.

Nikon Weight. Nikon makes pain in the neck from carrying

Leica M10 is compact, therefore when travelling I can carry it in a small case or I can put it inside the messenger bag

Racism: As I am from Middle East, when traveling for tourism to foreign countries, I see I am being belittled from carrying DSLR, as per my face color, I should walk without anything. Rather than wearing Rolex I wear Patek Philippe watch which people don’t know about it and I get peace of mind. I wear Nike clothes but not Gucci. I take shots using iPhone or unknown public camera brand like Leica rather than canon, Nikon and Sony.

I am mostly look into half empty cup. I mean I want a great quality camera, therefore power shot camera is not an option. I get lots of advice to buy Leica as it looks decent so it matches my face color.

What about Leica SL or anything other than M10. Compact, sharp images without much noise or very less noise at high ISO?

[jaapv]

Well, you can get the Leica M in a number of different leather colours as a-la-carte to match your person., I suppose... Seriously, I find this preoccupation with camera type and race rather weird. I wonder where you travel to sense such an issue - it is certainly foreign to me and not something you'll find on this forum.

 

Travel cameras:

 

The SL with its lenses is a similar size to a DSLR, it would not gain you much camouflage. 

The M is a camera for connoisseurs: Manual, no AF, requires a learning curve to use properly.

The CL and TL2 are versatile, go-anywhere and compact travel systems and would suit your purpose best.

Then there is the Q, a fixed-lens travel companion.

 

For image quality, all of these outperform any need a travel photographer might wish for - like the offerings of other brands do.

The lenses are at least as important for the perfect photograph, if not more so than simple sensor output. Leica is industry leader in this respect.

 

I don't know where you live, but the Leica Academy and several importers will  sometimes offer trial days, where you can use the equipment of your choice.

[pgh]

Dear all,

Reasons for movement:

Weight, compact and avoid racism.

Nikon Weight. Nikon makes pain in the neck from carrying

Leica M10 is compact, therefore when travelling I can carry it in a small case or I can put it inside the messenger bag

Racism: As I am from Middle East, when traveling for tourism to foreign countries, I see I am being belittled from carrying DSLR, as per my face color, I should walk without anything. Rather than wearing Rolex I wear Patek Philippe watch which people don’t know about it and I get peace of mind. I wear Nike clothes but not Gucci. I take shots using iPhone or unknown public camera brand like Leica rather than canon, Nikon and Sony.

I am mostly look into half empty cup. I mean I want a great quality camera, therefore power shot camera is not an option. I get lots of advice to buy Leica as it looks decent so it matches my face color.

What about Leica SL or anything other than M10. Compact, sharp images without much noise or very less noise at high ISO?

I really don't think the Leica is going to help you avoid racism. That's a cancer the world over and Leicas are targets as much as anything else, but if you think it will help, who am I to say. However, the rest of your reasons - if I were you I would look towards Fuji or m4/3 (olympus or panasonic) solution. If you want small and good IQ,

the Pen F or the X pro 2 will both do well. The M10 may also, but it doesn't sound like it's worth it given what you're looking for. 

 

The SL has large lenses and isn't really a space saver compared to an SLR. I mean, maybe a little bit, but not enough to warrant systems changing IMO.

The D750 has better or equal image quality. The Leica cameras will not be a step up from what you're used to from your Nikon. They may be a bit different in a way you like, but the files are not more robust or anything. Your Nikon will have more dynamic range. Your Nikon will have less noise at high ISO. The Leicas might be a touch sharper, but unless you already know you love to shoot the rangefinder way the M10 is a big gamble. 

[ramarren]

1- What Leica camera has an image quality equal or better than Nikon D750. I am interested in Sharpness and noise or ISO?

2- I see SL has more features than M10, then Why M10 is more expensive than SL?

 

 

Your issues about "money loss" isn't any of my business and is nothing I can advise you on.

And why the M10 might cost more than the SL is also of no relevance... I have an M-D typ 262 and it is simply an entirely different kind of camera compared to a Leica SL (or Nikon D750, for that matter). 

 

I had a Nikon D750 and a few nice lenses for it when I ordered the SL. After the SL and the SL24-90mm lens arrived, I never again used the Nikon. The Leica SL's controls and performance were in another league for me. 

[wosamko]

Well, you can get the Leica M in a number of different leather colours as a-la-carte to match your person., I suppose... Seriously, I find this preoccupation with camera type and race rather weird. I wonder where you travel to sense such an issue - it is certainly foreign to me and not something you'll find on this forum.

 

Travel cameras:

 

The SL with its lenses is a similar size to a DSLR, it would not gain you much camouflage. 

The M is a camera for connoisseurs: Manual, no AF, requires a learning curve to use properly.

The CL and TL2 are versatile, go-anywhere and compact travel systems and would suit your purpose best.

Then there is the Q, a fixed-lens travel companion.

 

For image quality, all of these outperform any need a travel photographer might wish for - like the offerings of other brands do.

The lenses are at least as important for the perfect photograph, if not more so than simple sensor output. Leica is industry leader in this respect.

 

I don't know where you live, but the Leica Academy and several importers will  sometimes offer trial days, where you can use the equipment of your choice.

 

 

I really don't think the Leica is going to help you avoid racism. That's a cancer the world over and Leicas are targets as much as anything else, but if you think it will help, who am I to say. However, the rest of your reasons - if I were you I would look towards Fuji or m4/3 (olympus or panasonic) solution. If you want small and good IQ,

the Pen F or the X pro 2 will both do well. The M10 may also, but it doesn't sound like it's worth it given what you're looking for. 

 

The SL has large lenses and isn't really a space saver compared to an SLR. I mean, maybe a little bit, but not enough to warrant systems changing IMO.

The D750 has better or equal image quality. The Leica cameras will not be a step up from what you're used to from your Nikon. They may be a bit different in a way you like, but the files are not more robust or anything. Your Nikon will have more dynamic range. Your Nikon will have less noise at high ISO. The Leicas might be a touch sharper, but unless you already know you love to shoot the rangefinder way the M10 is a big gamble. 

 

 

Your issues about "money loss" isn't any of my business and is nothing I can advise you on.

And why the M10 might cost more than the SL is also of no relevance... I have an M-D typ 262 and it is simply an entirely different kind of camera compared to a Leica SL (or Nikon D750, for that matter). 

 

I had a Nikon D750 and a few nice lenses for it when I ordered the SL. After the SL and the SL24-90mm lens arrived, I never again used the Nikon. The Leica SL's controls and performance were in another league for me. 

 

I am from Qatar. I face the racism issue when I travel to Italy, Switzerland and UK. As someone said: Life is short make it sweet. In those countries I had to leave the camera at the hotel and take shots by iPhone 8 Plus to not make my days bad.

Regarding AF I have to cancel the purchase of Leica M

I have seen chromatic aberration issue from the sample images of M10. Is the issue from the lens? If so, what lens should I buy for the other Leica models? 

What is about Q? is it compact and not painful carrying like Nikon and its lenses?

Thank you all for your kind assistance

[jaapv]

The Q is a high-end fixed-lens compact camera with excellent image quality. 

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Hallo,

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[Gelatino]

Leica Q is discreet, makes IQ photos, got AF and matches with Patek  .