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M8 With Color Meter


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I've been thinking of buying a Minolta IIIf color meter to take readings in order to set the Kelvin manually on the M8. Is anyone else doing this? I'd like to find out how well it works before plunking down several hundred for the meter. In some mixed light situations, I've tried a hit & miss with the Kelvin setting, just using what I see on the LCD to get in the ball park, then fine tuning with the RAW converter. This has worked okay, but it seems to me the best way would be to get an accurate reading with the meter for each lighting situation.

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you could also try a expo disc to set the WB manually. Very simple to use. I bought a 67mm model and all I do is hold it in front of the lens with the camera set to Manual WB, take a shot of the lighting and go from there. It has worked for me.

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you could also try a expo disc to set the WB manually. Very simple to use. I bought a 67mm model and all I do is hold it in front of the lens with the camera set to Manual WB, take a shot of the lighting and go from there. It has worked for me.

 

I use a WhiBal card pretty often and have borrowed a friend's expo disc a couple of times. They do work well, but I'm trying to get exact readings as quickly as possible. One problem with the expo disc is that many of my Leica lenses have shades of odd sizes and shapes and they do not easily accomodate the disc. This would certainly be a lot less expensive than using a color meter, however.

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Brent, I've got the expodisc pro (the new neutral one)... even the 77mm expodisc fits all the Leica lenses (and all my Canons and Rs as well--I don't have the 2.0 180, though ;))

 

Sounds like this is the way to go. I'm ordering one right now. Thanks much to all who responded. Jamie, the 2.0 180 is really a sweet lens (from what others tell me). A couple of years ago I passed up a chance to get a new one for $3600. Really, really dumb!!

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I use the Gossen Color meter and dial in the temperature in Kelvin, works fine.

 

Thanks, Mark. I believe the Gossen is even more expensive than the Minolta. It does make sense to me that this would consistently be the most accurate method of color balancing.

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Brent- When the D2H came out with it's ability to dial in K value, I got a used minolta III and used it often. I found it very helpful, but not always as accurate as I expected because so often the subject is in mixed lighting and there is no one correct temp easily measured. It certainly is spot on in uniform light, and especially helpful in tungsten settings. I ended up using the expodisc then, and now, more often for it's ease, portability, but also to get a "reflective" temp by aiming at the subject, rather than the "incident" temp of aiming at the light source, as I would with the meter. I'll say that one thing the meter has really helped is to learn to guess temps pretty well with lot's of practice. If I have no expodisc or meter, I will sometimes dial in my guess, Lastly, I found I'd often warm up the tones by adding 50 t0 100 degrees to the meter recorded temp which is naturally neutral. best...Peter

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Brent- When the D2H came out with it's ability to dial in K value, I got a used minolta III and used it often. I found it very helpful, but not always as accurate as I expected because so often the subject is in mixed lighting and there is no one correct temp easily measured. It certainly is spot on in uniform light, and especially helpful in tungsten settings. I ended up using the expodisc then, and now, more often for it's ease, portability, but also to get a "reflective" temp by aiming at the subject, rather than the "incident" temp of aiming at the light source, as I would with the meter. I'll say that one thing the meter has really helped is to learn to guess temps pretty well with lot's of practice. If I have no expodisc or meter, I will sometimes dial in my guess, Lastly, I found I'd often warm up the tones by adding 50 t0 100 degrees to the meter recorded temp which is naturally neutral. best...Peter

 

ditto the above-color meters are strange beasts, using them in mixed light only tells you so much, you have to fine tune later, so you are back to setting the wb in the raw processor anyway. However, if you have control over the light they are invaluable, especially if you are shooting under exotic lights like HMI, or even tungsten pars, which can vary enormously, and more-so in the green/magenta axis than you would wish for...

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Hello!

I've been thinking of buying a Minolta IIIf color meter to take readings in order to set the Kelvin manually on the M8. Is anyone else doing this? I'd like to find out how well it works before plunking down several hundred for the meter. In some mixed light situations, I've tried a hit & miss with the Kelvin setting, just using what I see on the LCD to get in the ball park, then fine tuning with the RAW converter. This has worked okay, but it seems to me the best way would be to get an accurate reading with the meter for each lighting situation.

The best and cheapest color meter are your eyes (sometimes with a little help of a clock).

Look and you will see:

Daylight, cloudy, shadow, incandescent, fluorescent...

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Brent, Carsten--

 

I'd love a 180 2.0 R :) But I'm pretty tapped right now; one would have to come by for a lot less than the eBay sample.

 

I have the 180 2.8, and it's sweet in itself. But someday I'll get the 180R; this is the year of the M lenses for me!

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Hello!

 

The best and cheapest color meter are your eyes (sometimes with a little help of a clock).

Look and you will see:

Daylight, cloudy, shadow, incandescent, fluorescent...

 

Harald--I can handle that much. The time I need help is when I'm in a space where there are fluorescent can lights, tungsten spots and big windows spilling in some daylight. What do your eyes tell you then?

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Interesting tread as I have also been considering a colormeter as the only real way to go.

 

But I must say my experience with WB using a white piece of paper has proven quite precise often and the expo disc sound right.

 

By the way, LEICA bei MEISTER had a 180/2.0 recently for ca. 3,300$ in their Hamburg store. Looked little used and is a nice lens.

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Hello!

Harald--I can handle that much. The time I need help is when I'm in a space where there are fluorescent can lights, tungsten spots and big windows spilling in some daylight. What do your eyes tell you then?

My eyes will simply tell me, to not think about any automatic way of white balance. Furthermore my eyes may tell me also, to move my finger far away from the trigger :-) or even use a very powerfull flash as the main - and well known - light source.

But this is not, what you want to hear, so in the described case, I for my person will nothing change in my standard selection of 'daylight' and will try - which will fail too often - compensate the different color temperatures (based on different light sources) when developing the DNG.

It depends on the strength of the single light sources and the effect of imagination of the whole image, which light source I will select as the main one.

Often this is daylight to have the additional soft and warm effect of indescent light, but it may also be contrary.

I think it is absolutly wrong to set color temperatur to an average value like it is done by some brand cameras if choosing AWB.

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I think it is absolutly wrong to set color temperatur to an average value like it is done by some brand cameras if choosing AWB.

 

Yes, I completely agree about AWB. This is why I want to get the Kelvin values as close as possible in the camera at the time of image capture. I would prefer to have guesswork kept to a minimum during this process.

 

Cheers,

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Hello Brent!

Yes, I completely agree about AWB. This is why I want to get the Kelvin values as close as possible in the camera at the time of image capture. I would prefer to have guesswork kept to a minimum during this process.

If you have only sun as your light source, you have to decide, if shadow, cloudy or none. If none (blue sky) you have to decide if you set according the day time or not. All of this decisions are well known Kelvin value.

If you have indescent light, you have not so much choice, something about 2800K.

If you have fluorescent light source, you are at the worse side. There exist all types of so called 'white' (warm, cool, natural, etc.) and there is no practical way, to translate this color into a Kelvin (black radiant) value.

If you have two or more different light sources, well, than it is your decision (and not a result of measurement) which Kelvin value you should use.

Kelvin value always depends on a red/blue ratio to a 'constant' green. This is by definition a 'black radiant' (sun, indescent) and this can be measured by a 'light temperatur meter' if it has (only) a Kelvin scale.

Fluorescent light has NO appropriate Kelvin value (even if your ligth meter shows one) because it has an additional green(/magenta) ratio also. If fact you have three distinct values for red, green and blue.

So, if you have only light from a 'black radiant' you can use your eyes as described in former message. If you have fluorescent light, you can measure with a meter, but even if it shows you a Kelvin value, this value is wrong. The only workaraund is a diffusor in front of the lense and a picture of the light source itself, which you can 'white balance' when developing the DNG. The result is a well balanced fluorescent light and wrong colors for all other light sources.

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I stopped using the Gossen color meter as I found the results worse (probably, my lack of experience in pointing it in the right direction). So, for me, the best technique is to use the camera's white balance system (not auto, manual white balance).

 

Danni

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