aXs Posted July 10, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I recently read Carsten's blog and thought, he's far too modest to post that text here - so I'll do it. Quoted _without_ permission from Carsten's Blog: "...[Carsten] is toying with the idea of making a program which can read and convert DNG files, as well as generate HDR images, including auto-rotating, aligning and cropping a batch of images, given some manual input on the first image in the series, and of course, tone-mapping.[He] has enough ideas that ... ought to work ... [and is] researching available algorithms..." I think we should encourage Carsten's innovations (like we do for John Milch's innovations) and really help get this project off the ground (startup/seed capital anyone?) And remember folks, before you read about it in the Wall Street Journal - you read it here on the LUG! Axel Axel Sanders ...maybe for the Leica Challenge Berlin (Oct/2007), there will be a beta version for everyone to test... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Hi aXs, Take a look here Let's all encourage Carsten - making a new program f converting DNG files/ HDR images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 10, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 10, 2007 Absolutely encourage him. We have many many products in the photo industry alone made by one person that serves the market well on all these little things that the OEM's don't make and we could use so bad. Johns WATE adapter for instance is really the best solution around for that lens. Sandy's corner fix , Jim at Brightscreen for the DMR , Luigi fine leathers and the list goes on. Just do it Carsten. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted July 10, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 10, 2007 I notice that Jamie Roberts is credited in the latest LFI for some very useful color-adjustment profiles. JC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samir Jahjah Posted July 10, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 10, 2007 I notice that Jamie Roberts is credited in the latest LFI for some very useful color-adjustment profiles. JC Are Jamie Roberts's profiles only working in Capture One? Can they be imported into Aperture for instance? Or PS3? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 10, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks, but there is no need to encourage me I am doing it because I want to. It will take time though, real time, because I am starting from zero knowledge about DNG, TIFF, Bayer demosaicing, HDR and so on. I am a professional 3D graphics programmer by trade, so nothing is impossible, but catching up on all this can't be done in a day. I might skip the DNG step and just use libTiff, to save time. This would allow me to focus on something useful first, and add the candy later. Also, I have only a Mac, and I intend to do it in XCode, so porting (in case anything ever comes of it) would have to be done by someone else, and would mean a whole new interface. I am not interested in WxWindows and so on. I have done that in the past, and I want to learn how to program the Mac. Anyway, this has to share time with my slow-burning effort to go pro (photographer), my wonderful girlfriend, my daily photoblog, and my full-time, relatively demanding job, as well as travelling and museum- and photo-exhibition hopping, so you can see where this is going. If something is ever released, you should be surprised, not the other way around It would be open source though, I am almost certain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted July 10, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 10, 2007 Why not develop this as a commercial product? This is a hot area, which many photographers are only beginning to understand, and the existing solutions are somewhat weak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted July 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am a professional 3D graphics programmer by trade, so nothing is impossible...I might skip the DNG step and just use libTiff, to save time...I intend to do it in XCode...would have to be done by someone else, and would mean a whole new interface...It would be open source though, I am almost certain. As I already said - Carsten is a modest person - and a profi programmer - so maybe on this LUG forum there are a few more programmers that could work together in and make it happen? I propose a new kind of Leica Challenge Berlin 2007: "Innovation inspired by Leica" It would be exciting if Carsten's beta-version DNG/HDR program, John Milch's pre-industrial design concept-work (adapters/shades), Jamie Roberts color-adjustment profiles and others - would be part of a new annual award for "Innovation inspired by Leica" (maybe sponsored by the independent LFI-magazine/Hamburg together with Leica Camera AG/Solms) ... Now it looks like we need a real mover-and-shaker, a promoter like Guy to start a new "list"... Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 10, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 10, 2007 Axel, there are a few of us already in touch off the list, occasionally I imagine that this little group of interested geeks and techies will grow with time. Perhaps we ought to formalise it a little bit at some point, and maybe open a forum somewhere, but the time isn't quite ripe, I don't think. Maybe once the summer is over and people start spending more time indoors again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 10, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 10, 2007 As I already said - Carsten is a modest person - and a profi programmer - so maybe on this LUG forum there are a few more programmers that could work together in and make it happen? I propose a new kind of Leica Challenge Berlin 2007: "Innovation inspired by Leica" It would be exciting if Carsten's beta-version DNG/HDR program, John Milch's pre-industrial design concept-work (adapters/shades), Jamie Roberts color-adjustment profiles and others - would be part of a new annual award for "Innovation inspired by Leica" (maybe sponsored by the independent LFI-magazine/Hamburg together with Leica Camera AG/Solms) ... Now it looks like we need a real mover-and-shaker, a promoter like Guy to start a new "list"... Axel Axel Sanders Wow i love the challenge idea , that is pretty cool. Hmmm maybe we can get official leica sponsorship. Man there just going to hate me if i bring this one up. LOL I must drive these poor guys nuts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted July 10, 2007 Wow i love the challenge idea , that is pretty cool. Hmmm maybe we can get official leica sponsorship. Man [they are] just going to hate me if i bring this one up... must drive these poor guys nuts. Guy, thank you for your support. As I said, you are a mover-and-shaker, but I already contacted the guys in Solms about these kinds of project-ideas for Leica Camera AG back in December 2006 - and again in January. I also contacted the guys at LFI-magazine/Hamburg. The general feedback from all of them was: it has to become a "grass-roots" type of thing comming from Leica-users themselves and the international LUG-forum. When you got that - then you get the blessings of Leica Camera AG. BTW, LFI-magazine is an independent commercial publishing venture (that licenses the Leica-brand), and therefore should communicate any Leica Camera AG endorsed projects. Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted July 10, 2007 Why not develop this as a commercial product? This is a hot area, which many photographers are only beginning to understand, and the existing solutions are somewhat weak. sirvine, you're right - but the question is whether such stand-alone programs (or plug-ins) should be a commercial project - or "open source" also for the Leica camera-users community. I'm with carstenw on this project being a Leica-related open source project. As you may know, the Knoll brothers invented Photoshop. One brother worked for the Californian studio "Industrial Light & Magic" and the other tried to manage it - at first to bundle the program with new hardware (a scanner if I recall correctly) - but Apple and Adobe Corp. were not really interested because they already had graphic programs. Today we have Aperture and Lightroom for sure - but it would be cool to have new Leica-related open source programs. Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted July 11, 2007 ...a few of us already in touch off the list...Perhaps we ought to formalise it a little bit at some point, and maybe open a forum somewhere... carstenw, why not already "formalise it" here on the LUG digital forum - why "somewhere" else? Guy is already excited about the project idea - and I'm sure a lot of people, like myself, would be interested in suggestions for better user interfaces and for a new kind of program for converting DNG / HDR images. Besides, you have many postings on the LUG about your excitment and planned particpation to the next Leica Challenge photography event (in Berlin or other place).. Why not use this Leica-event to bring it all together? Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 11, 2007 Share #13 Posted July 11, 2007 The Berlin event won't have us all present. I don't know if it makes sense to discuss all details in public. I don't think all of us are thinking open source, for example. There will surely be discussions here of any software produced, like Sandy's CornerFix for example. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted July 11, 2007 ...event won't have us all present...don't know if it makes sense to discuss all details in public...don't think all of us are thinking open source... "Open source" program projects are a lot like the Leica LUG forum - graphic programmer experts like yourself - sharing openly and freely information - to help the others. Besides, you stated several times on the LUG that only 40 or so LUG members actually post all the time - the larger body of ca. 24,000 members - don't post. (This doesn't even count the non-members searching Google for techie/geeky information and ending up on the LUG forum). This fact (the non-posters) seemed to bother you. So maybe it is the responsibity of major posters, like you and Guy, to encourage more people to do active-posting - and not just PM-ing among "a few" techies/geeks? Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 11, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 11, 2007 Heh, that's kinda funny. The apathy of the masses obligates the few. Seems backwards to me. If some of us were to discuss the finer details of DNG, TIFF/EP, which tags are needed to make a valid DNG, which can't co-exist, which need to be carried on and which dropped when editing, how to interprete the colour values in the Bayer matrix, and so on, most people here would shut off. This is a photo forum, not a development forum. Anyway, once there is anything interesting to look at or try, it will certainly be posted here. Most of the development work will likely happen inside our individual heads and only occasional questions will even leave our heads, so there really isn't that much to see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted July 11, 2007 Heh, that's kinda funny. The apathy of the masses obligates the few...seems backwards to me...most people here would shut off... ...this is a photo forum... carstenw, I'm glad to amuse you at your workplace. However, may I remind you, that in fact this forum is not a "photo forum", but in a much wider sense, a forum for Leicaphotography and its evolution in digital imaging (ie digital forum). The contemporary workplace for photography/imagemaking requires that we are all involved with all aspects of this complex creative and technical process. We are limited or enhanced by our tools: in this case Leica-cameras and lenses, programs/user-interfaces, workflow systems, media - and innovations including all the recent "cottage industry"devices, workrounds and tricks. So I do not agree with you that "...people here [LUG forum] would shut off"... Give the "masses" [your quote] a chance to decide for themselves. But please do recall, that you were the person who made an issue about "24,000 LUG forum members - but less than 40 members are active posters". <grin> Axel Axel Sanders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaac Posted July 11, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 11, 2007 Hello Carsten! If some of us were to discuss the finer details of DNG, TIFF/EP, which tags are needed to make a valid DNG, which can't co-exist, which need to be carried on and which dropped when editing, how to interprete the colour values in the Bayer matrix, and so on, most people here would shut off. Well, except me, of course :-) Most of the development work will likely happen inside our individual heads and only occasional questions will even leave our heads, so there really isn't that much to see. The good message: I have all the neccessary routines and - hopefully - the experience. The bad message: I program only for OS/2 (which is actually eComStation). If programmers will only work for the "Mainstream", well, I will accept (and shut off also :-) PS: If you are interested in details, than please let us use our mother language :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted July 11, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 11, 2007 The good message: I have all the neccessary routines and - hopefully - the experience. The bad message: I program only for OS/2 (which is actually eComStation). Harald, The question would be in what language (C++?) do you program and are your routines. And bear in mind going to your mother tongue excludes the likes of me...... Sandy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanyr Posted July 11, 2007 Share #19 Posted July 11, 2007 This would be really great especially if the algorithms chosen create a different and unique look compared with many of the raw converters on the market. E.g., we can see that Olympus's raw converter is quite different from Adobe camera raw. Also would like the developers to consider an interface like the old Softimage|3D program. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 11, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 11, 2007 Hello Carsten! Well, except me, of course :-) The good message: I have all the neccessary routines and - hopefully - the experience. The bad message: I program only for OS/2 (which is actually eComStation). If programmers will only work for the "Mainstream", well, I will accept (and shut off also :-) PS: If you are interested in details, than please let us use our mother language :-) I am interested, and I speak German fairly well, but my mother tongue is Danish or English, depending on how you count I have only lived in Germany for 5 1/2 years. I will contact you off list. If you program OS/2, perhaps you recall EDM/2. I was involved for a very long time, ending with a few years as Editor-in-chief. I did almost all the book reviews, the Modula-3 on OS/2 article and several other items, as well as the editorial responsibility, coordinating people, encouraging contributions, designing the website. When IBM gave up on OS/2 as a desktop operating system, I handed over the reigns to some people who released two or three issues and then stopped silently. Very disappointing. Anyway, I don't care what platform the routines are written for, I would likely rewrite them anyway. I am more interested in code samples as "documentation" and algorithms, to be honest. It would be faster to get up to speed with working code in front of me, that's for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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