Leica S3

[Guest]

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So, still an SLR system.... let's hope their AF module is updated, or it will still not be appealing to me...

the AF on my S007 works pretty good........just not ready to pay the $7k price tag for the 37 megawatts upgrade

Neil

[bab]

Yes but you will pay the DEVIL to change out the board and sensor in your current weapon.

 

IBIS would be a real nice addition?

 

Under 20k

 

HOPE

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[Guest]

Yes but you will pay the DEVIL to change out the board and sensor in your current weapon.

 

IBIS would be a real nice addition?

 

Under 20k

 

HOPE

USD$28750

[AlanD]

USD$28750

At $30K, I am not sure it will do very well in the era of 100MP sensors and the new mirrorless guys. All it takes is someone to develop the S to ___ adapter and then the S lenses are no longer unique.

[tllabron]

Body same as S007 with 64 MP sensor

 

Neil

It seems unlikely to me and definitely not Leica-like in thought or deed, but in reality 70mp would seem more appropriate considering that Nikon is marketing a 35mm with a 45.7mp capability. Leica should be able to manage 70mp, though many probably would be happy with 64mp. Leica does not seem to innovate any more and are more likely to tell us what we need rather than give us what we want.

[Guest]

It seems unlikely to me and definitely not Leica-like in thought or deed, but in reality 70mp would seem more appropriate considering that Nikon is marketing a 35mm with a 45.7mp capability. Leica should be able to manage 70mp, though many probably would be happy with 64mp. Leica does not seem to innovate any more and are more likely to tell us what we need rather than give us what we want.

it's 64mp

[BernardC]

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70mp would seem more appropriate considering that Nikon is marketing a 35mm with a 45.7mp capability. Leica should be able to manage 70mp, though many probably would be happy with 64mp.

 

45 MP is at the limit of what 35mm can deliver without taking extreme measures: super-heavy-duty tripod, only using the few lenses that can deliver at that level, only focusing manually at 1:1 using the EVF, only shooting at base ISO, etc.

Remember when people were excited about the 50mp Canon? That excitement died-down quickly when they realized how hard it was to use.

 

The Leica S is a breeze to use compared to that, and there's no need to worry about lenses: they're all excellent.

 

Not much difference between 64 and 70mp: 3% linear (9% by area). If 3% makes a noticeable difference, you should be looking at 100+mp cameras.

[xiaubauu2009]

45 MP is at the limit of what 35mm can deliver without taking extreme measures: super-heavy-duty tripod, only using the few lenses that can deliver at that level, only focusing manually at 1:1 using the EVF, only shooting at base ISO, etc.

Remember when people were excited about the 50mp Canon? That excitement died-down quickly when they realized how hard it was to use.

 

The Leica S is a breeze to use compared to that, and there's no need to worry about lenses: they're all excellent.

 

Not much difference between 64 and 70mp: 3% linear (9% by area). If 3% makes a noticeable difference, you should be looking at 100+mp cameras.

 

 

I think 135 has since move leaps and bound since the introduction of high density sensor. Most of their newer lens even from the likes of Canon, Nikon, even Sigma can resolve those dense pixel sensor (I am a great fans of the Art series Sigma). And having enough image circle to even adapt on to 44x33 sensor with ease and offering aperture of 1.4 to the MF world.

 

Leica S also require a solid tripod to make full use of those quality lens, in my experience, and at least for me, their AF is not the best in terms of accuracy especially doing the 100cron or large aperture work. And once I missed a few chance of focusing. I start to question my ability, as well as the ability of the S AF to get accurate focus every time, and hence slow me down even more. Split screen focusing screen kind of fix that, but I am still doubting myself once in awhile.

 

Mirrorless with CDAF+PDAF built-in to the sensor is the future, not more focusing issue and even the focus peaking assist will eliminate any doubt. or at least that's what GFX has given me. When it said it's on focus, it's on focus....

 

For me, S3 can have lower than competitor's pixel count as long as it has its unique color profile (S006 is special). Mirrorless with flange of 17mm (comes with an adaptor for S lens) as it opens up all sort of opportunities, like adapting lens and putting it onto a tech cam such as Cambo Actus. IBIS! and electric global shutter (game changing!)

 

Then S3 will even steal market from digital back market.

[Guest]

I think 135 has since move leaps and bound since the introduction of high density sensor. Most of their newer lens even from the likes of Canon, Nikon, even Sigma can resolve those dense pixel sensor (I am a great fans of the Art series Sigma). And having enough image circle to even adapt on to 44x33 sensor with ease and offering aperture of 1.4 to the MF world.

 

Leica S also require a solid tripod to make full use of those quality lens, in my experience, and at least for me, their AF is not the best in terms of accuracy especially doing the 100cron or large aperture work. And once I missed a few chance of focusing. I start to question my ability, as well as the ability of the S AF to get accurate focus every time, and hence slow me down even more. Split screen focusing screen kind of fix that, but I am still doubting myself once in awhile.

 

Mirrorless with CDAF+PDAF built-in to the sensor is the future, not more focusing issue and even the focus peaking assist will eliminate any doubt. or at least that's what GFX has given me. When it said it's on focus, it's on focus....

 

For me, S3 can have lower than competitor's pixel count as long as it has its unique color profile (S006 is special). Mirrorless with flange of 17mm (comes with an adaptor for S lens) as it opens up all sort of opportunities, like adapting lens and putting it onto a tech cam such as Cambo Actus. IBIS! and electric global shutter (game changing!)

 

Then S3 will even steal market from digital back market.

 

Your going to be disappointed then..........Its the same body with the same viewfinder and 64MP .......thats it.

 

Neil

[xiaubauu2009]

Your going to be disappointed then..........Its the same body with the same viewfinder and 64MP .......thats it.

 

Neil

 

 

Ya, I know... hahaha

[ZHNL]

I think 135 has since move leaps and bound since the introduction of high density sensor. Most of their newer lens even from the likes of Canon, Nikon, even Sigma can resolve those dense pixel sensor (I am a great fans of the Art series Sigma). And having enough image circle to even adapt on to 44x33 sensor with ease and offering aperture of 1.4 to the MF world.

 

Leica S also require a solid tripod to make full use of those quality lens, in my experience, and at least for me, their AF is not the best in terms of accuracy especially doing the 100cron or large aperture work. And once I missed a few chance of focusing. I start to question my ability, as well as the ability of the S AF to get accurate focus every time, and hence slow me down even more. Split screen focusing screen kind of fix that, but I am still doubting myself once in awhile.

 

Mirrorless with CDAF+PDAF built-in to the sensor is the future, not more focusing issue and even the focus peaking assist will eliminate any doubt. or at least that's what GFX has given me. When it said it's on focus, it's on focus....

 

For me, S3 can have lower than competitor's pixel count as long as it has its unique color profile (S006 is special). Mirrorless with flange of 17mm (comes with an adaptor for S lens) as it opens up all sort of opportunities, like adapting lens and putting it onto a tech cam such as Cambo Actus. IBIS! and electric global shutter (game changing!)

 

Then S3 will even steal market from digital back market.

I agree with you about shooting difficulty between Leica S and 35mm DSLR. I feel many lens can realize the sensor density on Nikon system even their zoom lens. and also handhold bility of D850 is a few stop better than S actually, especially once enable quiet mode and EFC. there is no shutter vibration during front curtain up. And I also want mention D850 have way better AF than LEica S. but I have to say shooting easy or fast AF is not the reason I pick S. and I would pick up S over 35mm system every single time if I could. Why, because I can see the difference. 

 

Mirrorless with CDAF+PDAF is future or not, I don't care so much. Leica S might sell better if everyone goes mirrorless. That is the niche and specialty leica after. I personally love the way it is. Why change just for the sake of change? With Knowledge they gain from SL, they can easily implement something similar in S format and run parallel with OVF S. 

 

Pixel density is overrated. I'd choose better color and DR all day to pixel once it reach certain level. However, I see Leica have no choice to have higher pixel if they want justify their price and premium status. I am fine with that, I can continue use S006 until S3 available at more affordable price. My S glass won't go anywhere. 

 

BTW, I don't think $28000 Leica flagship with 64M are overpriced if you know how Leica set their price historically. Id like to have it lower but I am not surprised. 

[AlanD]

$28K preserves the value of the S007 I suppose.

 

Do we know the manufacturer of the new sensor? Any updates to video?

[tom0511]

In any case, I am just happy if the S system lives on.

I think its a great system. For me mirror less and optical viewfinder both have its strengths and weakness. I can not agree that one is the future and the other one not.

[xiaubauu2009]

In any case, I am just happy if the S system lives on.

I think its a great system. For me mirror less and optical viewfinder both have its strengths and weakness. I can not agree that one is the future and the other one not.

 

 

I actually think OVF is fine for a 135 system as they system is a) more advance in sensor tech + AF module tech, cover by all sort of OIS to eliminate user error. I am sure saying that if S is to benefit or make full use of its potential in terms of optical superiority that we all claim it has, then I think there need to be a better solution to their AF system and from their SL experience, one would think that is the path to go, as with all the other major manufacturer. SLR OVF is not unique to Leica, and we can't expect people to look at S like the way we look at M, an M is a unique experience, a niche and and S is not....

 

Well, let's hope there's a good solution to the OVF + EVF benefit....

[Photon42]

I think 135 has since move leaps and bound since the introduction of high density sensor. Most of their newer lens even from the likes of Canon, Nikon, even Sigma can resolve those dense pixel sensor (I am a great fans of the Art series Sigma). And having enough image circle to even adapt on to 44x33 sensor with ease and offering aperture of 1.4 to the MF world.

 

Leica S also require a solid tripod to make full use of those quality lens, in my experience, and at least for me, their AF is not the best in terms of accuracy especially doing the 100cron or large aperture work. And once I missed a few chance of focusing. I start to question my ability, as well as the ability of the S AF to get accurate focus every time, and hence slow me down even more. Split screen focusing screen kind of fix that, but I am still doubting myself once in awhile.

 

Mirrorless with CDAF+PDAF built-in to the sensor is the future, not more focusing issue and even the focus peaking assist will eliminate any doubt. or at least that's what GFX has given me. When it said it's on focus, it's on focus....

 

For me, S3 can have lower than competitor's pixel count as long as it has its unique color profile (S006 is special). Mirrorless with flange of 17mm (comes with an adaptor for S lens) as it opens up all sort of opportunities, like adapting lens and putting it onto a tech cam such as Cambo Actus. IBIS! and electric global shutter (game changing!)

 

Then S3 will even steal market from digital back market.

 

Are you absolutely positive that your AF has an accuracy problem? 100/2 of course shows the slightest move back and forth of either/and the subject and yourself. I have zero issues to focus the HC 2,2/100 fully open. Same for the 2.5/120. Even manually it works fine if no one moves ... Of center focussing plays a role here, too. With one focus point I then use MF, if the part I want to have in focus is close to the border of the images and the distance is short. Big advantage of course to multiple AF points (easy to implement for mirrorless), but not really a genuine accuracy issue of the S AF system.

[xiaubauu2009]

Are you absolutely positive that your AF has an accuracy problem? 100/2 of course shows the slightest move back and forth of either/and the subject and yourself. I have zero issues to focus the HC 2,2/100 fully open. Same for the 2.5/120. Even manually it works fine if no one moves ... Of center focussing plays a role here, too. With one focus point I then use MF, if the part I want to have in focus is close to the border of the images and the distance is short. Big advantage of course to multiple AF points (easy to implement for mirrorless), but not really a genuine accuracy issue of the S AF system.

 

 

I think it's the tap to focus ability that I really like on mirrorless, also some form of a AI to help nail eye focus 100% of the time.

[Chaemono]

Your going to be disappointed then..........Its the same body with the same viewfinder and 64MP .......thats it.

 

Neil

Body looks slightly differently.

[kparseg]

BTW, I don't think $28000 Leica flagship with 64M are overpriced if you know how Leica set their price historically. Id like to have it lower but I am not surprised. 

I'll respectfully disagree. When S2 was introduced 10 years ago, the DSLR-sized MF body with excellent weather resistant properties was one of the key selling points. And since there was no competition, Leica could charge any price they wanted. This time has passed already, and other manufacturers produce similar size/feature bodies at a better price. No monopoly anymore, but Leica apparently doesn't want to notice that.

 

Interestingly, fujirumors reports that the Fuji GFX50s sensor costs $2k to produce. Assuming that Leica S sensor costs the same, what does the rest of the price justify? R&D expenses for the same body as 10 years ago are minimal. 

[ropo54]

Why all the fuss about this?

Leica will set their price and those who choose to buy it will do so, and those who choose other options will do similarly. Whether it is "worth" the price remains to be determined by the marketplace.  

Edited September 1, 2018 by ropo54

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[AlanD]

Why all the fuss about this?

Leica will set their price and those who choose to buy it will do so, and those who choose other options will do similarly. Whether it is "worth" the price remains to be determined by the marketplace.

True but as Leica fans, we would prefer that they avoid the Hasselblad route where they are acquired by DJI because they ran out of money. Leica has been doing great year after year, but as Kodak knows, tides can turn quickly.