Buying advise for a used M9

[Tinker55]

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Hi all,

 

first post here so here's a brief introduction about myself:

I've just retired and now want to spent more time on my hobbies; one of which happens to be photography!

Currently I own a Fuji X-H1 with a couple of lenses. Great stuff and it all works fine but there's just one thing missing: the 'emotion' I used to get when I was still working analog. I guess you know what I mean: taking your time to prepare for the shoot, the magical moment of hearing the shutter firing, followed by the anticipation of an evening in the darkroom. 

Now, I don't want to go back to working analog again, but I'm sure there is a bit more 'magic' to obtain from working with Leica and/or a medium format camera. As I still need to prove to myself that this is indeed the case, I don't want to spent to much on a second camera and was thinking about getting a used M9; preferably with the updated sensor.

 

I was hoping that some of you can give me some advise with regards to the following:

 

- is it still worth while to invest in a M9?

- how much should I realistically expect to pay for a clean but used M9?

- without breaking the bank, what lenses would you advise in combination with an M9; at the moment I'm not interested in anything longer than 50mm

 

Is there anything else I should do / know before committing myself to (potentially) spending a lot of money?

 

thanks & regards,

Erik

[pedaes]

Welcome to the Forum. The M9 is still a great camera with a strong user base. There are a number of threads on the topic you raise that you will find if you search this sub-forum. Personally I would buy from a respected dealer such as those supporting this Forum and be happy that the price is what it is. The Summarit-M range of lenses are excellent.

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[TomB_tx]

Still a good plan. I bought my M9 as a retirement gift in 2010, and use it just like a film Leica with lenses I bought in 1969. After 7 years I heard about the sensor corrosion issue, and checking closely found a couple of tiny spots that looked like the issue, so I sent it to Leica to evaluate. It took a few months, but came back like new, with the new corrosion resistant sensor at no charge (policy has changed now). Now I also have an M10 (and a Sony A7 for my old SLR lenses), but the M9 still gives stunning images, if you keep the ISO set to the low end (say 1250 max).

Clearly look for one that has the upgraded sensor to avoid future problems. (Leica also replaced sensors with the old style before the new one was ready, so just "replaced sensor" may not mean the new style.)

The M9 is at its best with 35 & 50 lenses, and I use 35 on it more, while on film used 50 more. The Zeiss ZM 35 f2.0 Biogon is a good match to the M9, and mine is sharper than my (older) Summicron. Likewise the Zeiss 50 f2 ZM Planar is pretty equal to the current 50 Summicron, but a bargain price.

The M9 can benefit from faster lenses because of the ISO limitation, and I've actually enjoyed and gotten great images from the Voigtlander 35 f1.4 Nokton, which is very small, styled like the original 35 Summilux from the 1960s. The Nokton has barrel distortion and focus shifts to the rear as it is stopped down, but is nice to use on the M9, especially in dim light where the focus shift isn't an issue. It's also about the cheapest 35.

The Voigtlander 50 Nokton 1.5 (Asph) is a fine performing fast 50, (and lower cost) but the very narrow focus ring takes some getting used to. I've been using it more on my M9. Image quality is quite close to Leica or Zeiss, and construction quality is very good.

For Leica lenses I now prefer the Summarit f2.5 lenses in 35 & 50 for their small size, great handling, and good flare resistance. I used them on my M10 most of the time, as the M10 high ISO means I don't need fast lenses for it.

[otto.f]

- usefull to invest? If you mean to get return on investment, no I don’t think so. Although there might come a time that CCD-sensors are hyped up just as vinyl does at the moment. I left my M10 after a year in favor of my M9 because I like the colors much more. All the progress made in the M10 as an RF camera can’t compensate for the unique color characteristics of the M9, which I could often not produce with my M10 files and if so, only after too much PP to my taste and patience.

- I would go for an M9P for about €3300 or so

- Elmar 50/2.8, astounding lens! For about €700,=. If you’re more a 35 guy, the Summicron 35 pre-asph. I own a lot of Leica M lenses but grab most often this combination: M9 with Summicron 35 pre-asph

Edited July 4, 2018 by otto.f

[Tinker55]

Thanks guys for such quick and very useful feedback; much appreciated!

Think I need to go shopping soon    based on your comments...

 

Otto: I didn't mean ROI; I was just curious about how the M9 holds up against more recent cameras / sensors from a picture quality perspective.

[earleygallery]

What if the M9 doesn’t give you that same feeling of satisfaction that you used to get shooting film?

 

What if that satisfaction was the result of a film workflow?

 

I guess you can always trade the M9 for a film M and keep the lens

[otto.f]

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Thanks guys for such quick and very useful feedback; much appreciated!

Think I need to go shopping soon based on your comments...

 

Otto: I didn't mean ROI; I was just curious about how the M9 holds up against more recent cameras / sensors from a picture quality perspective.

Ok, for me, CCD holds certainly against most recent CMOS. Higher ISO sensors compromise color quality Edited July 5, 2018 by otto.f

[Tinker55]

What if the M9 doesn’t give you that same feeling of satisfaction that you used to get shooting film?

 

What if that satisfaction was the result of a film workflow?

 

I guess you can always trade the M9 for a film M and keep the lens

 

Surely there is a conversion kit for the Digital M to turn it into a "good old film version"...     

[Denys]

Can’t add much to the helpful comments already made here.. ..so will just give my two-penneth worth of thoughts. I would avoid a body that contains the version 1 (prone to corrosion) sensor or pay a price with the thought of spending a lot to update to the version 2 sensor. Folks have pointed out that not all version 1 sensors will corrode, but I would like piece of mind. I would also buy from a shop and get a warranty if possible.. ..ideally a Leica dealer. In the UK, M9s from those places hover around the £2000 mark, sometimes less. M9-P a couple of hundred more (but chrome seems not to come up so often, so maybe a bit more for those). How much extra one is prepared to pay for different markings (but sapphire glass screen) varies by individual.

I tend to see in 35mm, so use the 35mm Summicron v4 (from my film days!) all the time.. ..you may not like to limit yourself the same way.. ..but it’s a good place to start.

I’m sure you’ll not regret your decision - welcome aboard!

Edited July 5, 2018 by Denys

[Lukas F.]

I can't answer your questions, but...

 

- Elmar 50/2.8, astounding lens! For about €700,=. If you’re more a 35 guy, the Summicron 35 pre-asph. I own a lot of Leica M lenses but grab most often this combination: M9 with Summicron 35 pre-asph

Just to be clear, since OP might be new to Leica: Otto refers to the Elmar-M 50/2.8, which is the successor of the Elmar 50/2.8.  The Elmar-M has less vignetting etc. and is in general superior to the Elmar.  (Of course this doesn't mean that one can't take good pictures with the Elmar...)  Note that there is a black and a silver version of the Elmar-M, the later is heavier due to the use of another material (brass instead of aluminium IIRC).

[Tinker55]

Again guys, thanks for hints and feedback; this place is a great place for Leica newbies like me... much appreciated !

[ianman]

Hi Erik,

 

I think the M9 is a great choice. I got mine new when it came out in 2009 and still love it as much as back then. As others have mentioned, for me, the quality of the images from the CCD are unequalled by any CMOS, Leica or otherwise.

 

I'm not sure about the suggestion of the M9-P version, I don't think it's worth paying more for the cosmetic differences. I regularly see standard M9s advertised at between €1300 to €2000.

 

However I do think it's worth making sure any camera you do buy has the latest sensor. The problem now is that you may find a camera with an old sensor without corrosion but which may appear sooner or later, and then you will be stuck with a hefty bill for getting it fixed. But again, as it has been written here, I would suggest buying from a reputable dealer or at least from someone who can provide paperwork. If in doubt, you can always contact Leica customer service to ask if the camera has had the sensor upgrade. You will of course need to provide them with the serial number.

 

As for the lens, well it's of course all down to personal choice and needs. I am a sucker for the 28mm Summaron which is always on either my M9 or M-P (the film one). For me, the M9 & Summaron combo is a winner.

 

Happy M9 hunting!! 

[pgk]

Two choices basically. Buy an M9 with the latest upgraded sensor and pay a higher price, or pay a lot less for one needing a new sensor and get Leica to fit one for you. The second may be tricky though because cheap M9s don't appear very often and when they do its usually because their cosmetics are poor too. That said, personally I'd look for a replaced sensor M9 from a dealer offering a good (12 month should be possible) warranty and pay a higher price for it. I have M9s - great cameras - which have both shot a lot of images, and which will only be replaced when they are worn out which should be a very long time off.

[Ko.Fe.]

If I would buy used M now, it would be M8 (for second time )because it is outstanding digital M for how feels close to early German film M.

And they are affordable. Or I would get M240, because it is best digital M for its price as used overall.

M9 is not so much less than M240 now. And M9 is very special digital M. Some of us still find it good and no reason to upgrade.

But if you just need digital M for "emotion" then it is any you could find within your price range. They are all true Leica M.

 

Personally, I like my M-E because it very close to film M, which I'm also using. No EVF, no Video, not so many menus and wheels.

And ISO capabilities are very close to what I'm doing with film.

To me M9 sensor is just like I use film. I prefer to take pictures on bright and sunny days.

And during another part of the year I push it @1600, @3200 max.

 

M8, M9, M-E then beside film M, gives "emotion". I'm sure M10 does it and M240 maybe slightly less, but still...

[otto.f]

@ #12: My opinion: I don’t see the sapphire glass of the screen as a cosmetic gadget. It helps me to concentrate on picture-taking alone, and not needing to worry about getting my camera in and out of the bag without scratches.

[pedaes]

"M9 is not so much less than M240 now."

 

Perhaps there is a reason for this. Although the M10 is a great great camera, I personally feel a M9 with a 'new-new' sensor is the best of the rest. I can't see myself ever parting with the M9, but had no hesitation in swapping M(240) for M10.

[Tinker55]

He guys,

 

been busy so couldn't respond any earlier; but now it's time to think about spending some money again 

I've come to the conclusion that I'd like to get an M9 with an updated sensor; I simply don't want to go through the trouble of buying one with the original sensor, or worse, one that I don't know the history of. I've been looking on the web today and have found a couple of interesting options. I'm one of those guys who also appreciates a 'good looking' specimen, so I will ignore the heavily used ones. That said, I may have to pay a little bit more, but I think that will be worth the money.

 

I've also been thinking about what I will be using the M9 for, which gave me some pointers towards the lenses I may want to get. I think I'll start with an 'allrounder' like the 35mm to familiarize myself with the M9 (Elmarit 2.4?), followed by a 21mm and 75 or 90mm. That should give me a nice set to work with.

 

Obviously I will keep you posted and as soon as I've got something to show you will be the first to know 

 

Finally, I'm planning a trip to Wetzlar coming week; I believe that's an interesting city to visit for Leica enthousiasts...

[chris_livsey]

 I've been looking on the web today and have found a couple of interesting options. I'm one of those guys who also appreciates a 'good looking' specimen, so I will ignore the heavily used ones. That said, I may have to pay a little bit more, but I think that will be worth the money.

 

 

 

It's not the visible usage that need concern you it's the sensor. 

 

 

 

I've come to the conclusion that I'd like to get an M9 with an updated sensor; 

 

Indeed a wise decision but please beware, you will see M9s offered with an "updated sensor" "replaced sensor" etc you need to make more detailed enquiries. 

When the corrosion issue began Leica replaced the sensor with a "new" one it was the original design one but was "new" and several members have had to replace those sensors as they were identical and the corrosion appeared again. Sellers are not precise, unintentionally or otherwise, in their descriptions and replaced sensor, new sensor, updated sensor, have all been used to describe cameras with a sensor that was replaced with another original sensor. Leica did not help by describing in paperwork the work done which was not clear as to which sensor had been used around the time of the "MkII sensor being available, there is AFAIK no precise date at which the MkII sensor was used exclusively for replacement. Knowing Leica they probably had several technicians working independently each with a bin of parts and some ran out of original sensors on Monday others on Wednesday etc so leica could not give a date, I understand fitting began of the MkII sensor around October 2015. 

If you have physical access to the camera you can determine the sensor:  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/284958-buying-a-leica-m9/?view=findpost&p=3525641

[Tinker55]

Thanks Chris, will bear this in mind when looking around!

 

It's not the visible usage that need concern you it's the sensor. 

 

 

 

Indeed a wise decision but please beware, you will see M9s offered with an "updated sensor" "replaced sensor" etc you need to make more detailed enquiries. 

When the corrosion issue began Leica replaced the sensor with a "new" one it was the original design one but was "new" and several members have had to replace those sensors as they were identical and the corrosion appeared again. Sellers are not precise, unintentionally or otherwise, in their descriptions and replaced sensor, new sensor, updated sensor, have all been used to describe cameras with a sensor that was replaced with another original sensor. Leica did not help by describing in paperwork the work done which was not clear as to which sensor had been used around the time of the "MkII sensor being available, there is AFAIK no precise date at which the MkII sensor was used exclusively for replacement. Knowing Leica they probably had several technicians working independently each with a bin of parts and some ran out of original sensors on Monday others on Wednesday etc so leica could not give a date, I understand fitting began of the MkII sensor around October 2015. 

If you have physical access to the camera you can determine the sensor:  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/284958-buying-a-leica-m9/?view=findpost&p=3525641

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Tinker55]

Sometimes I really, really hate the internet...     

 

or, I should say: the overload of information you can find there...

or is it just me, getting distracted way too easily... ???

 

What's the case: while browsing I (obviously) came across other types of digital M's and here's my 1 penny for each:

 

M8: no thanks, too old technology

M9 / M9P / ME: well, I thought it had to be one of these

M 240: mmmm.... can get a new one for 4300 euro.... looks very interesting....

M 262: no, too much I don't need

M10: yes please... oh no, too expensive... will cause a divorce

 

I also noticed that nice looking M9's / M9P's with the updated sensor don't come cheap! I can only guess that that says something about these cameras...

 

The good thing (at least what I told myself) is that I "only" have to choose between 2 models (M9 vs 240)

The bad thing: I started this quest with a budget in mind of max 2500 euro for the body and max 1000 for a 35mm

The offer I got for a brand new set 240 & 35 Summicron is 6600 euro

 

Where did this all go wrong ???

 

I'm just writing this to help protect others from looking at the web way too long.

Just ignore me, personally I think I'm beyond help...

 

regards,

The confused Dutchman