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Will impending Nikon Mirrorless Affect Leica's Planning?


bags27

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What is Nikon? And what it has to do with Leica? Nikon doesn't make film cameras anymore, one maybe.

And Nikon doesn't make RF cameras long time ago.

What Nikon has to offer to me as film and digital RF owner.

 

And why some speculations about Nikon in Leica news?

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that's why its in "General Discussions" B)

 

 

 

What is Nikon? And what it has to do with Leica? Nikon doesn't make film cameras anymore, one maybe.
And Nikon doesn't make RF cameras long time ago.
What Nikon has to offer to me as film and digital RF owner.

And why some speculations about Nikon in Leica news?

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What is Nikon? And what it has to do with Leica? Nikon doesn't make film cameras anymore, one maybe.

And Nikon doesn't make RF cameras long time ago.

What Nikon has to offer to me as film and digital RF owner.

 

And why some speculations about Nikon in Leica news?

The careful reader will appreciate that I originally suggested that, because of historical relationships between Leica and Nikon, a perfectly placed Nikon mirrorless might have to be taken account of in future Leica mirrorless development. Sorry mirrorless or speculation of future Leicas doesn't interest you, but the previous rumor of a Leica C-M was highly interesting to many.

 

BTW, I see that Nikon Rumors has now significantly qualified its report by noting that the pictures of the two cameras are imagined one. Thus, we have no idea of form. 

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Nikon-shmikon. What some hidden history has to do with current market and Leica?

Do you know what before Leica went to mirrorless it was already saturated market sector?

FujiNoFilm, Panolimpic and Sony. Three sensor sizes.

Yet, Leica was able to sell thier mirrorless. Adding another brand to mirrorless will not affect Leica. It has overpriced, so-so in AF capabilities and under not so good service mirrorless cameras. But people are buying them. Not because they are mirrorless, but simply because it is another Leica. Leica mirrorless is prestige and luxury. Nikon is nothing but tool.

Personally, I'm waiting for Canon FF mirrorless :)

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Except that I personally have absolutely no interest in autofocus adaptation like that. I've owned and used a number of AF cameras now and, at best, autofocus leaves me only having to work with a different and more complex set of problems in camera control rather than being the panacea that many people seem to find it.

 

In many ways, I don't want my camera to do the job. I want my camera to do what I want, and I'll make the mistakes... :D

 

You could always turn off AF :)

 

For me, I'd rather have an AF option than no option.  I love rangefinder focusing, but it's not a universally superior focusing method for all situations, and together with a thoughtful AF system the photographer would be able to better capture more situations.

Edited by onasj
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The careful reader will appreciate that I originally suggested that, because of historical relationships between Leica and Nikon, a perfectly placed Nikon mirrorless might have to be taken account of in future Leica mirrorless development.

Well of course Leica is monitoring the camera industry and of course they prepare for Canon’s and Nikon’s expected entry into the FF mirrorless market, where as of now the only contenders are the Sony Alpha 7 models and the Leica SL.

 

And then there is the M, but the M isn’t likely to face competition any time soon.

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Nikon missed this boat a couple of years ago when they introduced the failed Nikon 1.

Which is now obviously discontinued, so who cares about that anymore.

 

 

Good to see that IBIS is included.  Hopefully it gives Leica the much needed kick in the butt...

Quite frankly I think its a shame they included IBIS. Because IBIS is a lot less useful in practice than many people seem to think, introduce a number of new problems, and make the construction of the camera more fragile and expensive.

 

 

Just to heckle a bit - Sony may be a computer company - but its camera division took over the heritage of Konica-Minolta. Nobody can deny that pedigree - not only bodies, but lenses as well. Not to forget the connection to Zeiss either ;)

Except Zeiss is good at classic prime lenses, normal to telephoto. They aint that good at wide angles, or zooms.

 

 

 

Let’s not forget that Sony dominates the sensor market....

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/08/01/sonys-sensor-domination-marches-record-profits-pour/

 

Jeff

Sensors are just another part of electronics, though, and nobody argues that Sony aint good at electronics.

 

 

You could always turn off AF :)

 

For me, I'd rather have an AF option than no option.  I love rangefinder focusing, but it's not a universally superior focusing method for all situations, and together with a thoughtful AF system the photographer would be able to better capture more situations.

In my experience, an AF lens with AF turned off is not even remotely as well manually focusable as a true manual focus lens.

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Except Zeiss is good at classic prime lenses, normal to telephoto. They aint that good at wide angles, or zooms.

I know some pretty good Zeiss wideangles, like the ZM 18 , 21, 28 , the Biogon-C 35 is preferable to the Summarit 35, and Leica learnt all they know about zooms from Minolta. For a long time they bought the designs in Japan.

 

BTW, I think that Zeiss needs to know a bit about zooms as well to be able to build these:

 

 

https://www.marcotec-shop.com/en/compact-zoom-cz2-3-lens-box-6124.html

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Even that is doubtful. There are quite a few Leica optics workers who switched to Zeiss - and the other way around. Wetzlar is a small town and a two hour's drive from Oberkochen.

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"Leica doesn't consider other camera makers direct competition” 

 
Camera pans round and we open on cigarette fumes, snaps hangover, typewriter clutter  Monday meeting  sometime in 1950s   Wetzlar.
 
"Hans  the M3 is  35mm photography, everything else is just lederhosen”
 
"But  what about the Japanese Zunow?,”   
 
“whats a  Zunow?.”
 
"Only the Ur SLR for the modern world’
 
“Not a problem no one has heard of them especially me."
 
"Hans have you seen a  Pentax?”
 
Yes its for  amateurs do you see the Queen with a Pentax?"
 
"What about the Nikon F, should we worry  does the N in Nikon stand for nemesis?"
 
“No , relax,  its just an SLR  camera rising from the ashes  of rangefinder defeat inflicted by our M3,  not even an Exakta"
 
"The only camera we should worry about ,  the real competition  is the Zeiss Contarex!  Japanese cameras are like  a Barretta 418 as , compared to a Walther PPK, they lack stoping power’"
 
"After all do you see the British motorcycle industry worrying about Japanese Motorbikes of course not."
 
Serioulsy lets hopes it different now, oh and btw don’t rely on  those improved earning numbers too much , we don’t  know what they are,  just an estimate of between 300 and 400 million, and I currently believe we don’t know the costs and we don’t know the profits. Right got to get back to that meeting .
Edited by AdamSinger
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  • 1 month later...

This source is suggesting the Nikon mirrorless is getting close now .....two megapixel versions of the camera, and a very fast lens to boot?..

 

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/13/breaking-nikon-z6-and-z7-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-and-three-lenses-coming-on-august-23rd-z-noct-nikkor-58mm-f-0-95-lens-to-be-announced-later.aspx/

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tonight at midnight. I suspect it will sell out by morning.... folks are going bonkers. I'm tempted even though they are pretty much Sony clones with a much simpler interface and maybe a bit better low light capability. The future is what's interesting: a very large lens flange and promises of extremely fast glass....  The FF Z7 with 45 mps will cost about the same as the CL. gives one pause.....of course, no manual shutter speed dial, which is a tragic oversight, IMO.

Edited by bags27
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having seen the press release now, it seems they are pitching it at pro photographers with an array of existing nikon glass, heck they even include the F to Z adapter in the 'kit'

 

for what its worth it is a high spec high price system which will sell shed-loads   if you are a gear-a-holic fine, but I'm a 1 body prime leica sort a guy so no, I'm not knocking it, I wish Nikon well and find it interesting but just that, if anything, Leica may up their SL specs on the next iteration but frankly who cares !   get out there and take images !  :-)

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Well, I would say the now officially announced Z6 and Z7 are huge disappointments to anyone expecting real mirrorless cameras from Nikon.

 

These are playtoys, not serious cameras. They are specifically designed to target demands from Sony users, with gimmicks such as IBIS and massive video features unknown to Nikon cameras before (up to 3840x2160, 30Hz, or 1920x1080, 120Hz, with 10 bit and N-Log to external recorders). I'm sure the IQ will also be good, no question.

 

However the control layout is pretty intolerable to anyone who wants to use these things professionally, and having only a single card slot is a very surprising oversight that basically lowers the status of these cameras to "entry level". Among Nikon DSLRs, even a semi-pro D7200 or D750 offers two cards slots.

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The form factor tells you all you need to know. These are carbuncled button-fests for gamers with ADD. These are polar opposites of the “essentialness” of a Leica. In the end a Leica aims to be simple and for some that will be polarizing in that some people will love the simplicity and others will suffer anxiety from a button-free interface.

 

I know which suits me best!

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I am very disappointed about the form factor, but don't think the camera is all that bad. Certainly, compared to Sony, Nikon's controls and I suspect interface are much simpler. Ergonomics, by all accounts of beta testers, is supposed to be great. Most interesting, Nikon took a real leap with its new very wide flange, opening up future possibilities including a larger sensor. Because I own a lot of Nikon heritage glass, I pre-ordered the Z6 plus adaptor immediately (reasonably priced, while the Z7 is not), but unlikely to actually accept delivery unless it's significantly better than I think it is.

Edited by bags27
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It’s the whole silly GAS game again... The crowd will rush to Nikon, the SL2 will leapfrog, the crowd will rush back, then Sony comes in, all on the merry roundabout. And not one better photo will be taken

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