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Color profile for Leica M (M10, 262) with ColorChecker


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9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The newest generation of screens includes some self-calibrating ones.

Time flies… this was from 5 years ago….


I’m still using an NEC screen from 2009; about time I look into a newer, better option, although this one has served its role well.  The calibrations are just starting to veer slightly off established targets.  I’ll either stick to NEC or migrate to Eizo. Any model recommendation?

Jeff 

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I bought the Eizo CS2420  (24") - 600 Euro cheaper than the self-calibrating variant (CG2420) but the specifications are very close It is 350 cd vs 400 and the contrast is 1;1000 instead of 1:1500. Neither is relevant for editing. No 4K nonsense ( I think it is impossible to judge sharpness on a 4K screen, everything looks oversharpened) but full Adobe RGB, perfect colour and perfect brightness consistency across the screen. I think there is. a similar pairing in 27"

 

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1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

......I’m aware of DxO, once considering them as a Lightroom alternative, but lost any interest in their approach, which precludes profiles for any Leica Monochrom camera, plus they admit to great difficulty accessing Leica products, often experiencing long delays before completing tests, if ever. I wrote to their feedback site, and instead of an optimistic response, the DxO rep basically apologized and said that was all they could or would do, not to expect improvements......

I understand.  They ask users what cameras need to be added, and some cameras such as my M8.2 have never made it.  My back-up solution is to use Apple tools to convert my DNG files into a Tiff file, which allows me to do most of my editing in DxO PhotoLab4.  Even more frustrating for me is that they've never added the ability to work with Fuji X-Trans Sensor camera raw files.  I suppose I could use raw files and convert to tiff, but working with the Fuji 'jpg' images is one of my alternatives.  The other is to use the software Fuji recommends, but I decided that in the long run, using the Open Source DarkTable editor is best for me - or go back to using Adobe products.  My monthly cost for Adobe isn't too horrible, but if they ever raise the amount, I'll drop out completely.  I still own a fully purchased copy of Lightroom 6, which doesn't require a subscription.

This forum is my best source for Leica information, although I find lots of other good information elsewhere as well.  I'm trying to avoid Adobe, and trying to settle down to only PhotoLab4 and DarkTable.  I did play around with Luminar, but found it too annoying.  I know I'll get yelled at for saying so, but I don't consider Luminar editing to be "photography".  Sometimes it's fun anyway, but PhotoLab is the best for me (even with the limitations) and DarkTable, being open source, has lots of new functions and features being added, and there is a huge support base.  There are a gazillion image editors, but my brain can only deal with two or three at most - although to be honest, I just downloaded the latest (trial) version of "Genuine Fractals" which I hardly ever used, but which created larger prints of images that I didn't think could be enlarged so much.

I have no plans to buy a new display, even if it is supposed to be self-calibrating.  If my 2013 iMac dies, I'll be forced to buy a second display for my Mac Mini, and if I do, I'll get just a display, not another all-in-one computer.  I also have no intention of calibrating my iMac screen, as the overly bright display is great for most things I do on a computer.

 

About printing - if I could buy a large color printer, that could sit unused for a year, and instantly start working again, I might get tempted.  Unfortunately, every ink jet printer I've owned had issues from sitting around unused, and last time I checked a color laser printer was way beyond my "budget".  

 

About calibration - I feel comfortable using my i1Display Studio.  It's reasonably priced, and if I follow the instructions, I have confidence that my display is calibrated, and I'll be able to do this for many years into the future.  If I ever did get an automatic-calibrating display, I'd most likely still use the i1Display Studio to verify that things are right.  

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25 minutes ago, jaapv said:

.......No 4K nonsense ( I think it is impossible to judge sharpness on a 4K screen, everything looks oversharpened)......

When/if I get involved in 4K video, I guess I'll need to buy an appropriate display, but I'm still doing HD video which is good enough for me.  

I'm curious though - if you view your images on a 4K screen at 100%, would they still seem to be "over sharpened"?  They ought to seem sharper than on a normal screen, but I think you're suggesting that this might not be so good.  I'm confused.  For someone who buys a 40-megapixel Leica, would a 4K display be better or worse than a non-4K display?  What is your advice?

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Adobe cost is a non-issue for me… 10 bucks a month including both LR and Photoshop… a pittance compared to what I spend on the rest of my photography, roughly the same I spent on regular LR standalone upgrades, and less than I used to spend on equivalent film and darkroom tools and supplies.  The most recent LR version is also far superior in IQ and in tools/features than LR 6, not to mention full camera and lens support.  I consider alternatives only in the event Adobe forces cloud storage.

Modern printers are much better in terms of avoiding clogs.  My Epson P800 can sit a month with no issues, and it’s simple to run a single test print occasionally.  

Different strokes…

Jeff

 

Edited by Jeff S
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There is no way that you can get 40 MP onto a normal-sized print. 4K only makes matters difficult. So my setup is an AdobeRGB Eizo screen as main editing screen (twin screen - the Eizo only displays the preview, nothing else) and a secondary Samsung 4K screen, of decent quality, Samsung calls it Pro ;) . You could do Video there.The things that the Eizo is superior at (Colour rendering, consistency across the screen) are important for stills but not for Video - there the sRGB 4K Samsung screen may be useful for its resolution.

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1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

I'm curious though - if you view your images on a 4K screen at 100%

I do indeed check sharpening @ 100%, but I do so in Sharpen AI Preview; much better than any editor. And it works perfectly well on a standard resolution screen. I obviously judge the full image at normal size, and to me the high-res screen looks awful with a properly sharpened image - as do prints that look OK on 4K.

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And you can mask the sharpening, which is a wonderful way to create the Leica 3-D look :lol:  Joking apart, it is by far the best sharpening technique that I know. The drawback is that it is slooow except on a quite powerful computer. It works both as a LR/PS plugin or as a standalone.

A better  video:

 

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

And you can mask the sharpening, which is a wonderful way to create the Leica 3-D look :lol:  Joking apart, it is by far the best sharpening technique that I know. The drawback is that it is slooow except on a quite powerful computer. It works both as a LR/PS plugin or as a standalone.

If you keep talking like that, it's going to cost me $$.  

Trial version is downloaded.

I wish there was a way to use it from "inside of" PhotoLab 4, the way PL4 can send images to Nik, then have them returned back into PL4.  Maybe later tonight I'll try it out.  Thanks, I think. 😕

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Well, I understand the plugin should run in Luminar as well..
Anyway, to add to your misery, I use Sharpen AI side by side with DeNoise AI, which can be confusing to the uninitiated, as DeNoise AI will denoise and sharpen your image and Sharpen AI will denoise and sharpen your image.
However, the two are different and must be applied to different types of images. The emphasis of DeNoise AI is on top-notch noise removal and good sharpening, whereas Sharpen AI will denoise quite well and produce highly sophisticated sharpening - so images that have noise as the main problem through high ISO (1600 and more) or underexposure  get run through DeNoise and come out clean and crisp, images that have blur as problem are run through Sharpen AI

A reasonably clean image, say under ISO 800, will normally only need sharpen AI, a noisy image will start with Denoise AI and come out perfectly sharpened too in the majority of cases, say, 20% will have more serious sharpness issues or want a sharpening masking and will need an additional run through Sharpen AI, possibly combined with pulling back on the sharpening in DeNoise.

It sounds complicated, but it is supremely easy to use and has speeded up my workflow with better results..

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39 minutes ago, jaapv said:

......It sounds complicated, but it is supremely easy to use and has speeded up my workflow with better results......

I watched the full video you linked to.  My head is spinning.  Some of it I understand and appreciate, and other things go way too far - if I "invent" pixels by making a photo wider, to create more room before something in the image, to me that has gone too far.  As "art", it is fine, but to me it has gone beyond photography.  Still, those are awesome tools.

From my rather simplistic view of the world, the ability to sharpen an image is a great tool, as is the ability to minimize "digital noise".   The most important part for me is sharpening.  As a standalone program, this would be very useful to me.  I'll try it out.  I'm guessing "Sharpen AI" and DeNoise" are two separate programs, sold separately?

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Just to confirm what is probably obvious - the programs in this last video are not the same as "ON1's NoNoise AI" and "ON1 Resize 2021"?  Apparently they are competitors?  If so, which is most suitable for someone (me) who does not want to get involved in Photoshop or Lightroom, and only plans to use DxO PhotoLab ?

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ON1 is another good editing program. The apps you mention are from that stable.
The Topaz programs are either stand-alone or plug-ins . If you want to stick with DXO the stand-alone versions are fine. -In that case you won't have access to Adobe features, like content-aware technology (inventing pixels as you call it ;)  ) so don't worry about it. There is no need to go to more advanced Photoshop editing. Don't forget that Matt used to be an Adobe guru before he branched out.

Your workflow would be:
Edit  your image in DXO as you normally would but do NOT apply any sharpening.. Save the final version as a TIFF to your desktop. Open the file in Topaz Sharpen AI, denoise/sharpen to taste (don't forget the auto switches!) like the Video shows, without the fancy PS/LR bits, and reopen the resulting file in DXO again to do some final tweaks and save in your usual manner.

Topaz is not a part of the Adobe family - they are a separate company and their products are suited for universal use.

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Hmm, the way I got here was searching for something from long ago in my memory, "Genuine Fractals" which is now part of ON1 apparently.  I like your workflow - it now seems more organized in my brain.  I haven't yet even opened up the trial version of ON1 that I downloaded.  So, maybe based on trying to emulate what you do, maybe I should look into Topaz rather than ON1 ?

"Edit  your image in DXO as you normally would but do NOT apply any sharpening.. Save the final version as a TIFF to your desktop. Open the file in Topaz Sharpen AI, denoise/sharpen to taste (don't forget the auto switches!) like the Video shows, without the fancy PS/LR bits, and reopen the resulting file in DXO again to do some final tweaks and save in your usual manner."

Cost is $60.  

I watched the full video you posted, and like what I saw.  

A good friend of mine was telling me that none of this matters unless I intend to make huge exhibition prints, and that if I post in my SmugMug Forum or send images by email, sharpness isn't that important.  I can't agree with that.  When I go to the opening page for Topaz Sharpen AI, there is a big difference in what I see on my display.  That means that this would immediately be useful for me.  I wish they had a "trial version", but I saw enough last night to accept how useful it will be for me.  PhotoLab4 already has a tool "Deep Prime" to improve "noise", but I think Sharpen AI would be a very useful addition.  

 

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Purchased and installed.

I tested it on one image. I need to find out how to use a mask, so the rest of my image isn't affected, and how to turn off the watermark that was put in place for the trial.

I didn't realize that the cost was for only one year - maybe I mis-read one of the pages that suggested that's how long I can use it.

For the parts of my image that needed it, it did quite well.  I need how to tell it to use all four possible tools, so I can select the one I like most.

Thank you though - it's a step in the right direction.

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The watermark disappears when you register the software.  Check your email. The 4-preview screen can be selected on the top right. Masking is on the bottom bar.

I don't know where you got the idea that it is a   subscription - it is an outright buy.

Here is a guide to use the program. Ignore the first bit when he is still in Photoshop, and the panning stuff.

 

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