28mm Cron or 24mm Elmar?

[agencal]

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Hi all

 

I will be buying a wide angle to complement my 50mm Apo on M10.I will be using it for travel photography mostly.

I have tried and compaired 24 Elmar with 28 Elmarit(new one) and found Elmar more crisp,more clearence and micro contrast and life like corner to corner comparing 28mm elmarit.

I could not have a chance to try 28 cron and if it is better than elmar it would be good to have some more stops of light.

When i look at the mtf graphs of cron they look great but i could not find a full size sample which shows that.They all look soft and contrastless.Look is no where near 24 Elmar.

Some people say it is a razor sharp lens corner to corner but sone says bad focus shift and soft lens(even the newest one) .I am a bit confiused.

I can even go for 28mm lux if it is beter macth for 50mm apo for clearence and micro contrast and modern look.

Please help me

[Al_OOF]

I have a 24 Elmar and I have tried a 28 Summicron of a friend and I have seen a lot of photos taken by him. They are different.

The former is more contrasted and sharp and the latter with softer colors and an impression of poor sharpness in dim light. I prefer the Elmar but I do not have other experiences of the 28 Summicron except that of my friend.

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[spydrxx]

I think the first question you should ask yourself is which focal length is better suited to the type of uses you intend, rather than the characteristics of lenses themselves. Once you have that determined, then you could reasonably proceed to evaluate the characteristics of the lenses which fit that criteria. I owned the 24 Elmarit asph at one time. It was an incredible lens, but I found it too bitingly sharp for my tastes and I didn't use 24mm anywhere near as often as I had thought I would. So given that info and your dilemma, I'd automatically look at the 28 options for my purposes, but YMMV.

[lct]

Hard to compare f/2 to f/3.8 lenses otherwise than at f/4 and above where both lenses are very close. I have those lenses and don't see the softer colors and poor sharpness referred to above i must say, at the same apertures i mean. The 28/2 is a bit less contrasty but i need to do side by side comparos to see it and differences disappear in a mouse click in PP. Same as when comparing 28/2 to 28/2.8 asph sort of. As for being "razor sharp corner to corner" neither 28/2 nor 24/3.8 can do that otherwise than between f/5.6 and f/11 at best. None of them can be compared to the 50/2 apo from this viewpoint anyway.  Unless the OP prefers the 24mm FoV, the 28/2 is the way to go as an f/2 lens matching naturally the 50/2 apo IMHO. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by lct

[Ko.Fe.]

Personally, I could barely handle 28mm as quick, RF style lens. With 24 I was too slow. Look to the right, to the left, up and down and try to get it all together, not at easy task for me with 24, took too long time.

And it was very different from 28 on the outcome. Maybe if 50 is one lens it is better to use 28. 

[Genn]

28 Cron is a good company lens. 

Please, keep in mind that this will be a no longer a RF-style photography process.  I would recommended to get an electronic viewfinder, and once focused with optical viewfinder  - compose the picture using EVF and a electronic level on display.

Also, I've find that 50 mm is enough in most situations. You'll not stop to replace lenses. You inner vision will be adopted to 50 mm and you'll start to see possible pics around you within a 50 mm frame. 

[Mute-on]

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I travel with 28 Elmarit ASPH and 50 Summicron. The 28 is most used, and makes the 50 feel like a short Tele. I feel these lenses compliment each other wonderfully.

 

Caveat: I shots them on two film Leicas (one lens permanently on each body), and I’m not a pixel peeper. Next to my 35/2.8 Summaron both lenses are more than modern, sharp and contrasty enough for me.

 

A faster 28 is not likely to be sharper.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Mute-on

[Fedro]

I tend to use 28 and 50 for 80% of what I do. They are a perfect match (especially on a range finder).

 

I have and use a 21, but most of the time 28 is more than sufficient

 

I have not used the 24, but I would imagine that if it is your only wide lens, you would have to invest in.an EVF - otherwise you will be cropping regularly and be back to 28 anyways

 

In terms of 28s I have used all of the current line up and am a big fan of the Lux, which is a wonderful lens for interior, low light, portraits, but for me that implies owning a second, lighter wide - either the 24 you mention (or even better the 21/18 SEM) or the 28 elmarit

[chris_livsey]

Hi all

 

 

When i look at the mtf graphs of cron they look great but i could not find a full size sample which shows that.They all look soft and contrastless.Look is no where near 24 Elmar.

 

 

I don't recognise the Summicron Asph 28mm as being "soft and contrastless", but then I don't own a 24mm Elmar nor an APO 50mm, so perhaps this kind of shot on the Summicron would be vastly superior on one of those two lenses?

On an M9 @ St.Andrews University Scotland earlier this year:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/40721350900/

I kept the width, lost the height. And that posted to Flickr as a 450k Jpeg so not "full size".

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by chris_livsey

[MarkP]

Much as the others have suggested. Decision making should be in this order, most fairly obvious.

 

1.  What focal length suits your photography best as 24 and 28 are very different.

 

2.  What speed lens do you require or want to pay for. Current 24 is only 3.4, whilst 28 is 2.8, 2.0 or 1.4

 

3.  How do you want to frame as If you want a 24 you can use the outer edge of the camera's inbuilt VF to approximate but still better using an external OVF or EVF.

 

4.  Only then, which lens renders most sympathetically with the 50 APO-Summicron. I have the 50 APO, 2.8/28, 2.0/28, and 3.8/24. The 24 would render most similarly to the 50 APO, then the 2.8/28, and then the 2.0/28.  Having said that, I think that in most circumstances it's not really an issue.  My 2.0/28 Summicron still get the most use of these three wide lenses. 

 

So, decide on FL and preferred maximum aperture. The other option is get a 28 and a 21 :-)

[agencal]

Much as the others have suggested. Decision making should be in this order, most fairly obvious.

 

1. What focal length suits your photography best as 24 and 28 are very different.

 

2. What speed lens do you require or want to pay for. Current 24 is only 3.4, whilst 28 is 2.8, 2.0 or 1.4

 

3. How do you want to frame as If you want a 24 you can use the outer edge of the camera's inbuilt VF to approximate but still better using an external OVF or EVF.

 

4. Only then, which lens renders most sympathetically with the 50 APO-Summicron. I have the 50 APO, 2.8/28, 2.0/28, and 3.8/24. The 24 would render most similarly to the 50 APO, then the 2.8/28, and then the 2.0/28. Having said that, I think that in most circumstances it's not really an issue. My 2.0/28 Summicron still get the most use of these three wide lenses.

 

So, decide on FL and preferred maximum aperture. The other option is get a 28 and a 21 :-)

Than if we answer the questions starting from 4;

24 elmar has the most smilar rendering to 50mm apo.So if similar rendering is the first priority than it is better to go with 24 Elmar.

3.If i buy Elmar it is better to buy a EFV

2.I sould use it for subjects which doesn’t need speed.

1.After all the best lens is useless if it is gonna wait in my bag.

So it would be great if there were a 28mm which is better than 24 elmar optically.

If optical quality,and 28mm angle is important i will go with 28mm lux

If optical quality and size is important i will go with 24 Elmar

If size and 28mm angle is important but optical perfection is secondary than 28mm Elmarit is the way to go.

 

Thank you all.

[darylgo]

Hi agencal,

Your assessment of the 24 Elmar matching the 50 Apo more closely is correct.  When using these lenses the images have a clarity unmatched with most other lenses.  Lightroom might be an alternative for other lenses to increase clarity but it will not match a lens that has those qualities.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 24, it is small, travels well and matches the 50 Apo in size.  

[MaticB]

For travel photography, 28 elmarit is superb: I had it and then replaced it with 28 lux: not that I regret, summilux is just perfect, but handling and quality of the shots of 28 elmarit was excellent combo for any kind of travel photography. If you really want to add something special, go for 28 summilux!

 

Matic

[MarkP]

Than if we answer the questions starting from 4;

24 elmar has the most smilar rendering to 50mm apo.So if similar rendering is the first priority than it is better to go with 24 Elmar.

3.If i buy Elmar it is better to buy a EFV

2.I sould use it for subjects which doesn’t need speed.

1.After all the best lens is useless if it is gonna wait in my bag.

So it would be great if there were a 28mm which is better than 24 elmar optically.

If optical quality,and 28mm angle is important i will go with 28mm lux

If optical quality and size is important i will go with 24 Elmar

If size and 28mm angle is important but optical perfection is secondary than 28mm Elmarit is the way to go.

 

Thank you all.

 

The 24 Elmar and 28 Summmilux will render most similarly to the 50 APO.  The reason many of us had recommended the 28 Summicron is that it's just such a good lens and good compromise amongst the 28s for speed, size and price.  That's why my 28 Summicron gets the most use with my 50s.. The 28 Summilux is a lot of bulk (and price) for that extra stop. 

 

However the 28 Elmarit is very close, faster than the Elmar, doesn't need an external VF, and is very light and compact with the same filter size as the 50 APO. It is by no means a second-rate lens and I often use mine with the 50 APO when I want small and compact and same filter size.  f2.8 in a 28 is probably similar handhold ability to f2.0 in a 50.  The 28 Elmarit is cheap enough, I think I can say that as you do have an M10 and 50 APO :-), that if you still feel you're missing out you haven't completely blown any budget for a 21 or 28.  It could be an excellent start if you like the look of the photos (see next paragraph).

 

You should pop into your local Leica store and shoot all the three wides discussed here (with an EVF for the 24 if that's how you would be using it) and then compare the images when back home. Not the same as living with a lens but it will give you an idea.

 

I love my 21, 24 and 28 lenses and usually pair one with a 50 if I want a 2 lens combo  (or triple up 21, 28, 50). I find still find 28 is by far the most used with for more general purposes and travel. Once one needs an external VF (electronic more-so than optical) the compactness of the system is quite compromised for day-to-day use, especially if travelling.  Do you really want to slip on that bulky EVF every them you pull out the 24, or have to leave it on most of the time if you're changing lenses a lot? 

 

Looking through threads here for the most popular 2 lens combo kits, 28 and 50 is up there but it really depends on what you photograph.  

 

Just remember that no matter how much you fight it, whatever lens you buy will only be a stepping stone to your next lens :-)

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by MarkP

[Herr Barnack]

Hi all

 

I will be buying a wide angle to complement my 50mm Apo on M10.I will be using it for travel photography mostly.

I have tried and compaired 24 Elmar with 28 Elmarit(new one) and found Elmar more crisp,more clearence and micro contrast and life like corner to corner comparing 28mm elmarit.

I could not have a chance to try 28 cron and if it is better than elmar it would be good to have some more stops of light.

When i look at the mtf graphs of cron they look great but i could not find a full size sample which shows that.They all look soft and contrastless.Look is no where near 24 Elmar.

Some people say it is a razor sharp lens corner to corner but sone says bad focus shift and soft lens(even the newest one) .I am a bit confiused.

I can even go for 28mm lux if it is beter macth for 50mm apo for clearence and micro contrast and modern look.

Please help me

 

Given that you are using an M10 and shooting travel images, the 28mm Elmarit #11677 would be pretty much impossible to go wrong with.  I have this lens and it is truly amazing.  It is small, light, affordable (for a new M lens), has excellent contrast and it is sharp and accurate (in terms of color rendition).  If you want one all-around wide angle lens, this is the lens to get.

 

Since you have a 50/2 APO, the 28mm focal length would be probably the optimum companion to it.  I have discovered - based on experience - that probably 95% of my lens needs can be met with a 50mm and a 28mm.  If I had to go with a two lens kit, a 28 and a 50 that are reasonably fast would be it.

 

If you are really a connoisseur of the 28mm focal length, the ultimate two lens 28mm setup would be the 28 Elmarit and the 28 Summilux IMHO.  If you want just one 28mm and can spend the extra cash for a faster lens, consider the new version of the 28 Summicron ASPH, #11672.  If you are on somewhat on a budget, the 28 Elmarit can't be beat. 

 

I think of the 28 Elmarit as a great travel/landscape lens, the 28 Summicron as the choice for just one all around 28mm and the 28 Summilux as the documentary/low light specialist. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[jeff_m]

You need to answer which focal length you will be more creative with. Micro contrast and focus shift are less important than how you see. Some people can’t stand the huge field of view that a 24mm gives, everything looks far away. But small interiors favor the 24mm. Getting the best technical image is of secondary importance to getting the best aesthetically pleasing image.

[Ecar]

I happen to own all the lenses you mentioned - although my 28/2 and 28/2.8 ASPH are not the last version.

In terms of rendering, the 24/3.8 is indeed the closest to the 50/2 APO, followed by the 28/1.4 and the 28/2.8.

You seem to be able to afford the 28/1.4: if I were in your shoes, I'd spend roughly the same amount on a 21/3.4 and a 28/2.8 for a small-size kit that would expand your creative options.

[otto.f]

I don't recognise the Summicron Asph 28mm as being "soft and contrastless", ...

Can’t agree more, especially the latest version has even gained a bit in contrast, I think it would even match the APO50 in character very well. I know the Elmar24 only from trying out a day, but I prefer the Elmarit24, which has another fingerprint than both the 28cron and APO50. But apart from that a 24 is a bit of ado on an RF

[agencal]

Can’t agree more, especially the latest version has even gained a bit in contrast, I think it would even match the APO50 in character very well. I know the Elmar24 only from trying out a day, but I prefer the Elmarit24, which has another fingerprint than both the 28cron and APO50. But apart from that a 24 is a bit of ado on an RF

This week i will hit the triger for 28 cron or 24 elmar but my leica shop do not have a 28 cron in display but closed box.So i do not have chance to try.

The full size samples i find at flickr are all soft or shaky shots.Would anyone want to share some dng or jpeg samples they have showing the resolution of the lens?

agencal@gmail.com

Thank you

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[chris_livsey]

This week i will hit the triger for 28 cron or 24 elmar but my leica shop do not have a 28 cron in display but closed box.So i do not have chance to try.

The full size samples i find at flickr are all soft or shaky shots.Would anyone want to share some dng or jpeg samples they have showing the resolution of the lens?

agencal@gmail.com

Thank you

My e-mail limits will not allow DNG, if you look at some of these 267 shots; https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=52616306%40N05&sort=date-taken-desc&text=summicron%2028mm&view_all=1

all are available in download at original uploaded size which is pretty big, certainly I can pick out my poor lenses 

I think all are 28mm VI Asph but take care tagging is manual so look at EXIF to be certain. Some early work will be on the M8, if you pick a recent one I can send an untampered jpeg as big as post will allow.

None will be on a tripod but I will tend to shoot at minumum 1/250th also some will be on film 

Edited July 1, 2018 by chris_livsey