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M7 Longevity - Next 30 Years


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Hi everyone, this is my first post and I’m new to the forum so thank you for your time.

 

After lusting after a Leica for many years, when I saw the M7 was discontinued I decided to act fast and try to secure one.

 

After daily searches and research I’ve found a 0.58M7 which has had a very recent CLA and had the DX reader replaced and upgraded to the optical type.

 

My question to you all is, is this a camera I could cherish and enjoy for the next 30 years?

My biggest concern centers around the electronics and circuitry failing over the coming years and repairs being costly or impossible.

 

I’m 31 years old and I don’t need glasses, I prefer shooting wide lenses so I trust that the 0.58VF will have some good contingency in if I ever start needing to wear glasses.

 

After searching online I couldn’t really find much recent optinion on this matter, so I look forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not sure what you want to hear. None of us know the actual situation regarding future parts availability at Leica and/or commitment to training and recruiting suitable technical staff to carry out repairs so we can only guess based on recent experience. I could try and reassure you and say Leica will support the camera for 30 years but my best guess is that they won't. Recent experience suggests that Leica are likely to run out of important parts and that the cost of repairs will make the availability of parts somewhat moot in many cases (you already need to budget for the thick end of €800 for any out of warranty repair by Leica). 30 years is a long time. With climate change, population growth, resource depletion, etc, I suspect far greater problems than a non-functioning M7 will be uppermost in your mind come 2048.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not sure what you want to hear. None of us know the actual situation regarding future parts availability at Leica and/or commitment to training and recruiting suitable technical staff to carry out repairs so we can only guess based on recent experience. I could try and reassure you and say Leica will support the camera for 30 years but my best guess is that they won't. Recent experience suggests that Leica are likely to run out of important parts and that the cost of repairs will make the availability of parts somewhat moot in many cases (you already need to budget for the thick end of €800 for any out of warranty repair by Leica). 30 years is a long time. With climate change, population growth, resource depletion, etc, I suspect far greater problems than a non-functioning M7 will be uppermost in your mind come 2048.

 

2048 ---- hope I even see the year!

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My question to you all is, is this a camera I could cherish and enjoy for the next 30 years?

 

Maybe or maybe not.

 

Leica have previously stated that they aim to support products for 10 years after production. So for the next 10 years they SHOULD be able to repair a broken M7. Beyond that I think you have to assume that should the camera develop an electrical fault it may well not be viable or possible to repair it.

 

Personally I'd buy one of the mechanical M's and an incident light meter, but if you want an M7, buy an M7.

 

If you get 10 years use out of one you buy now (and you're buying used it seems) then you're looking at what, an annual cost of about £100? That's good value.

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I own a fairly large collection of cameras of all ages and brands. Based on my experience of electronic cameras in general I would say "maybe". Many cameras 30 years old and more still work well, many don't. Generally the fewer the electronics the better the chance but that isn't always the case. 

 

It does seem that the better built the camera the better the chance, and some are surprising, for instance I have yet to come across a Pentax 110 SLR that doesn't work. The Pentax 67 is reliable, the Canon AE1 has a good reputation for longevity, the Canon A1 not so much. The Yashica Electro 35 tends to keep working and when it does fail repairing it is usually a simple DIY job.

 

The main problem with the M7 is that it is an uncommon camera, there aren't going to be enough around for many people to take them apart and figure out what is wrong.

 

Having said all this my advice is look after your camera, use it regularly, electronics tend to last a lot longer if they are switched on, and just enjoy it.

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Personally I doubt that the M7 will last 30 years, nevertheless I'd go with it and just use it until it can't be repaired anymore.

 

If possible look through a viewfinder with .58 magnification with your own eyes to make sure that you like it. It would be even better if you could check out the other magnifications (.72 and .85) as well. Judging from what you wrote I agree that .58 seems to be the best choice for you, but that's not necessarily the case.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not sure what you want to hear. None of us know the actual situation regarding future parts availability at Leica and/or commitment to training and recruiting suitable technical staff to carry out repairs so we can only guess based on recent experience. I could try and reassure you and say Leica will support the camera for 30 years but my best guess is that they won't. Recent experience suggests that Leica are likely to run out of important parts and that the cost of repairs will make the availability of parts somewhat moot in many cases (you already need to budget for the thick end of €800 for any out of warranty repair by Leica). 30 years is a long time. With climate change, population growth, resource depletion, etc, I suspect far greater problems than a non-functioning M7 will be uppermost in your mind come 2048.

Wattsy, thank you for taking the time to respond. 30 years is just a number in my head relating to the original cost (I still think these beat a DSLR on costs over a long period)

 

2048 ---- hope I even see the year!

Me too!

 

Maybe or maybe not.

 

Leica have previously stated that they aim to support products for 10 years after production. So for the next 10 years they SHOULD be able to repair a broken M7. Beyond that I think you have to assume that should the camera develop an electrical fault it may well not be viable or possible to repair it.

 

Personally I'd buy one of the mechanical M's and an incident light meter, but if you want an M7, buy an M7.

 

If you get 10 years use out of one you buy now (and you're buying used it seems) then you're looking at what, an annual cost of about £100? That's good value.

Since reading through all the replies, I'm leaning towards an MP or M6, the electronic shutter is most likely going to be the fail point on the M7. Very good point on the camera cost over 10 years makes a bit more sense. 

 

I own a fairly large collection of cameras of all ages and brands. Based on my experience of electronic cameras in general I would say "maybe". Many cameras 30 years old and more still work well, many don't. Generally the fewer the electronics the better the chance but that isn't always the case. 

 

It does seem that the better built the camera the better the chance, and some are surprising, for instance I have yet to come across a Pentax 110 SLR that doesn't work. The Pentax 67 is reliable, the Canon AE1 has a good reputation for longevity, the Canon A1 not so much. The Yashica Electro 35 tends to keep working and when it does fail repairing it is usually a simple DIY job.

 

The main problem with the M7 is that it is an uncommon camera, there aren't going to be enough around for many people to take them apart and figure out what is wrong.

 

Having said all this my advice is look after your camera, use it regularly, electronics tend to last a lot longer if they are switched on, and just enjoy it.

Thank you for the point on maintaining the use. I heard some capacitors on older models would decay if they weren't used. 

 

Personally I doubt that the M7 will last 30 years, nevertheless I'd go with it and just use it until it can't be repaired anymore.

 

If possible look through a viewfinder with .58 magnification with your own eyes to make sure that you like it. It would be even better if you could check out the other magnifications (.72 and .85) as well. Judging from what you wrote I agree that .58 seems to be the best choice for you, but that's not necessarily the case.

Lukas, you raise a valid point on the VF magnification. It is all well and good reading advice but I think it is a bit more of an individual choice. Going to try a few on the weekend. 

 

I would be more worried about film scanners and chemicals in 30 years.

I'm hoping by the time they run out of the scanner and chemical technology, a smart company would have created a slide in micro film sensor that turns a 35mm camera into a digital box. 

 

 

All - thank you all for your advice, I'm still a bit on the fence and will take some time on this decision I'm sure.

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Check how long M6 TTL lasted before Leica stopped servicing it due to lack of the parts.

 

What is this camera OP needs for? Take ten rolls per year or per month? 

"Cherish and enjoy" sound like ten per year and fancy half-case. At this case it should lasts fifteen years at least. My EOS 300 is like this, made in 2001 or so, still works.

 

Future of film Leicas depends on main shareholder. If he will decide no film Leicas it is going to be no film Leicas and support.

If he let his shares go, most likely same will happen.

And M7 is worse camera in this case. Only Leica could service it.

 

BTW, film scanners already replaced by digital cameras and chemicals were always DIY. The film itself is the question on 30 years timeline. 

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Check how long M6 TTL lasted before Leica stopped servicing it due to lack of the parts.

 

What is this camera OP needs for? Take ten rolls per year or per month? 

"Cherish and enjoy" sound like ten per year and fancy half-case. At this case it should lasts fifteen years at least. My EOS 300 is like this, made in 2001 or so, still works.

 

Future of film Leicas depends on main shareholder. If he will decide no film Leicas it is going to be no film Leicas and support.

If he let his shares go, most likely same will happen.

And M7 is worse camera in this case. Only Leica could service it.

 

BTW, film scanners already replaced by digital cameras and chemicals were always DIY. The film itself is the question on 30 years timeline. 

 

Film is now a niche product with niche (high) costs, see no reason for it to go away now that production has been rationalized. Demand will cycle over time as people rediscover and discover its properties and then rationalize film's use based on time and cost. And yes, some will develop/scan DIY, I would love to but there is no time for me to do it (or so I think, but the cost i edging me in this direction, at least for BW, and I have very nice Plustek scanner I have been using for old slides). 

 

Anyway to your main point for the OP -- get the camera and use it. No digital camera you buy today will be of value in 30Y why hold the M7 to a higher standard? My guess is someone in 30 years will be able to fix it, and if they won't be available, sounds like an excellent late life career for me. BTW, I can remember in the 70s how the mantra was that electronics was better than mechanical -- more accurate and would last longer. HA! fool me once as the saying goes

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So despite saying the MP might be the best solution, a shortage of used bodies on the market and a $4k upwards price tag for a used MP leans me towards an M7.

 

So far I’ve found a couple that have caught my eye locally, both are being offered with a lens which helps.

 

1. Black .58 M7, DX upgrade but pre MP viewfinder. Recent CLA in March. Comes with a Summicron 35mm. Both look in very good shape. $4200 for the pair.

 

2. Chrome .72 M7, SN 29 onwards so a slightly later model. No info on any CLA. Comes with a Summicron 50mm, once again both in very good shape. $3500 for the pair.

 

It’s a tough choice between the two, I prefer a black Leica and a 35mm lens. But a $700 saving is attractive and a .72 VF is a bit more versatile.

 

I wonder if a spreadsheet is in order to help me decide.

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It’s a tough choice between the two, I prefer a black Leica and a 35mm lens. But a $700 saving is attractive and a .72 VF is a bit more versatile.

 

 

I recommend you get the camera and lens that you want. A $700 saving might be attractive in the short term but if you prefer a 35mm lens, you'll end up spending more chopping and changing later on. 

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If desired aim is to have long term film camera I would suggest to move away from M7 as it depends on electronics to be fully operational and future servicing is at best guess, fail of any electronic component or a system like shutter cannot be ruled out.

 

Any purely mechanical camera would be serviceable in the future and old cameras are testament to that - going all the way to the very beginning of Leica. If in built meter can’t be fixed there will be smartphones if not dedicated light meters. On a wise note we are also talking of good availability of film in coming decades.

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I recommend you get the camera and lens that you want. A $700 saving might be attractive in the short term but if you prefer a 35mm lens, you'll end up spending more chopping and changing later on. 

Good advice.

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I recommend you get the camera and lens that you want. A $700 saving might be attractive in the short term but if you prefer a 35mm lens, you'll end up spending more chopping and changing later on. 

Agreed, going to view it on Friday. 

 

If desired aim is to have long term film camera I would suggest to move away from M7 as it depends on electronics to be fully operational and future servicing is at best guess, fail of any electronic component or a system like shutter cannot be ruled out.

 

Any purely mechanical camera would be serviceable in the future and old cameras are testament to that - going all the way to the very beginning of Leica. If in built meter can’t be fixed there will be smartphones if not dedicated light meters. On a wise note we are also talking of good availability of film in coming decades.

mmradman, I completely understand your point and this was my initial concern. I think this is a great way for me to get my first Leica at a cost where I'm unlikely to lose much money if I move towards a all mechanical body at a later date. The recent CLA and the great condition of the camera does give me some level of comfort. 

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I have an Olympus OM-2 I bought in 1977.  It works fine and seen lots of use.  If the electronics fail, there will be other cameras to scavenge for parts since the OM-2 was a large production model.  This was not the case with the M7, but I'll bet nobody will toss their M7 in the trash if it get's a little damage or aged like they have with OM-2s during the last 40 years.  I believe there will be electronic parts for an M7 available for many years, if you even need them.  The question I'd have is whether anyone will be able to service the camera for an electronic problem even if you have the parts.  My senses tell me there will be repair shops servicing all Leica film cameras for decades.  You might have to wait for months to get the work done, but there will be a former Leica employee that will have a nice supplement to their retirement income.  

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Hi everyone, this is my first post and I’m new to the forum so thank you for your time.

 

After lusting after a Leica for many years, when I saw the M7 was discontinued I decided to act fast and try to secure one.

 

After daily searches and research I’ve found a 0.58M7 which has had a very recent CLA and had the DX reader replaced and upgraded to the optical type.

 

My question to you all is, is this a camera I could cherish and enjoy for the next 30 years?

My biggest concern centers around the electronics and circuitry failing over the coming years and repairs being costly or impossible.

 

I’m 31 years old and I don’t need glasses, I prefer shooting wide lenses so I trust that the 0.58VF will have some good contingency in if I ever start needing to wear glasses.

 

After searching online I couldn’t really find much recent optinion on this matter, so I look forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions.

Hi Hallam, I've had my M7 since 2004... about two years after it originally came out. I must say, it hasn't missed a beat. If you have an opportunity to get a mint M7, then go for it! Do not listen to the naysayers, this is a great camera... and it will just keep on going and going  (well, mine's been going for 14 years without an issue). Anyway, up to you.

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From the original post I thought it was about buying a new M7 as they are being discontinued, what difference does it make buying a used one?

If its about buying a camera to cherish why not get something a bit more collectable? I've done it myself a few years ago when I bought an MP thinking this was the camera I would keep, about a year later sold it! rather have my old M2.

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