Considering pre-owned M240, need help with lens question as well

[_Michael]

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Once again, thank you!  At this point I am leaning towards a deal with the body and the Summicron as a starting point. The seller has a couple of third party hoods he has used. In the sample he shared with me I think I would agree with above in that the lens is a bit more 'mellow'. To me is has a bit less contrast and a slightly warm tone. The Skopar does have some weird bokeh. Not so sure about that. I think if I find this is the right solution for me, I'll save some $$ and eventually get a proper 'lux. 

[_Michael]

The M240 is a very capable camera, the M10 while being introduced later has less capabilities, less battery capacity.  The M240, while the rangefinder is exceptionally good, if you find it difficult to use or difficult in certain situations you can add the evf or use the rear lcd for live view.   Leica is unique with three finders/focusing, rangefinder, evf and lcd and you can also add an optical viewfinder to the accessory shoe makes four.  

 

 

Thank you. The body I am considering includes the Olympus EVF. I suspect that would be helpful at times. 

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[jmahto]

Thank you. The body I am considering includes the Olympus EVF. I suspect that would be helpful at times.

Absolutely... And it opens a world of adapters, legacy and long lenses.

[_Michael]

Absolutely... And it opens a world of adapters, legacy and long lenses.

 

The body shows some wear, has a couple noticeable scratches...looking aright around $3200 / USD for the body, 40mm/2, grip, EVF and extra battery. Seems pretty fair to me.  

[CharlesL]

The body shows some wear, has a couple noticeable scratches...looking aright around $3200 / USD for the body, 40mm/2, grip, EVF and extra battery. Seems pretty fair to me.  

 

The seller has chosen your starting kit for you in the understandable desire to sell his whole kit in one transaction. If you don't really need the grip, would like to see how pure rangefinder goes for you before deciding to get an EVF, and want a different lens, you can, with patience, find an M240 body by itself for much less.

[jmahto]

The body shows some wear, has a couple noticeable scratches...looking aright around $3200 / USD for the body, 40mm/2, grip, EVF and extra battery. Seems pretty fair to me.

You are the best person to judge whether the price is fair based on the condition, however I can say that only the grip is “extra” in this set. 40mm summicron can be sold later for same or more (it’s price has been slowly increasing in last few years I have monitored). Extra battery is good and scratches are part of the well used look. Just make sure you have the return agreement clearly in place in case you decide to. Edited June 28, 2018 by jmahto

[_Michael]

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The seller has chosen your starting kit for you in the understandable desire to sell his whole kit in one transaction. If you don't really need the grip, would like to see how pure rangefinder goes for you before deciding to get an EVF, and want a different lens, you can, with patience, find an M240 body by itself for much less.

 

Good points for sure, and something I've been giving some thought. The lens is certainly optional and that adds a few hundred $. 

 

I appreciate the points you raise.

[_Michael]

You are the best person to judge whether the price is fair based on the condition, however I can say that only the grip is “extra” in this set. 40mm summicron can be sold later for same or more (it’s price has been slowly increasing in last few years I have monitored). Extra battery is good and scratches are part of the well used look. Just make sure you have the return agreement clearly in place in case you decide to.

 

More good thoughts. Clearly the real value is something only I can decide. Based on the market I've seen this seems to be fair. The 40mm is in user condition with plenty of marks on the body but clean glass. Good to hear there is an improving market value.  No return here, this is a private-party sale. 

[lct]

Michael, may i suggest you try a 40mm lens on an M240 before deciding for the Summicron 40/2. As i said above i like much this lens but there is no 40mm framelines in M bodies so you could perfectly love, or hate, the 40/2 on the M240. AFAIC i like it on film Ms (with a modification of the flange), on the Epson R-D1 and on mirrorless cameras, but not on my digital Ms (M8.2, M240) because their viewfinder is not set the same way. FWIW.

[JTLeica]

Once again, thank you!  At this point I am leaning towards a deal with the body and the Summicron as a starting point. The seller has a couple of third party hoods he has used. In the sample he shared with me I think I would agree with above in that the lens is a bit more 'mellow'. To me is has a bit less contrast and a slightly warm tone. The Skopar does have some weird bokeh. Not so sure about that. I think if I find this is the right solution for me, I'll save some $$ and eventually get a proper 'lux. 

 

Get the 40 Cron - I have just today bought a scopar 35 but I have a fair few lenses. The 40 Cron will be an awesome single lens choice for now, just compensate for the lack of 40mm frame lines on the M240. You'll need to work out just how much you have to compensate when you start shooting.

[_Michael]

All, why do some photos I see of the  Top 240 have a white "M" on the top-left front, and others have nothing? Odd to me that there would be a difference. 

[Jean-Michel]

The ones with an M in front are M (240). The ones with no front M are MP (240). The MP have a larger buffer, allowing for a larger number of images shot continuously, and have a sapphire glass screen which is extremely scratch resistant. LEICA went from calling their models from M8 to M9 and decided to not number the next iteration and just call it an M, the 240 was basically adopted by users to help differentiate the models; and now we have an M10: M8, M9, M, M10.

 

Rereading your notes, I am not sure if you are getting such a good deal on what sounds like a well used if not abused camera and lens. My Canadian LEICA dealer currently lists a like new MP for Cdn$ 4785 and a similar condition M for Cdn$ 4145; and the Canadian dollar now trades at about $0.75 US. So a like new M would be about 3k US.

[_Michael]

Thank you Jean-Michel. Just sent you a Message.

[jaapv]

I am not sure which ring do I have but it is not stuck. I never screw in my round metal hoods on any lens too tightly and it moves little bit all the time. If someone is really paranoid then they can put a light grease on the thread.

 

If I understand correctly, the original hood for 40 summicron-C was a rubber hood. Where will you find it in good condition!

Quite regularly  on eBay. That rubber is pretty durable, most bad-condition ones are worn, not cracked with age.

[blueskyoveraquatic]

Hello all, 

 

I have been reading here for some time, but I believe this is my first post. Thank you all for your participation so people like me may learn about the Leica systems and options. 

 

I warn ahead of time; this is another one of those post seeking purchase advice. 

 

I am at a point with my photography where I am simply done with having too many systems, too many options and too many mini-computers. I have been shooting for 35-40 years, and have used a number of different analog and digital systems in both a personal and professional manner. Notably lacking is my experience with Leica or really any other rangefinder system. Current gear includes a mix of FujiFilm (X-pro2, Xt-2) and Canon (1DX, !DSmk3, L-glass to 500mm prime). Shooting now days is primarily business travel, personal travel, street scenes, some landscape but hotting terribly serious, as well as volunteer sports work for organizations like Special Olympics.   As much as I like the smaller Fuji system, there is something missing there and honestly the post-processing part is cumbersome compared to every other system I have used. The raw files are so much slower than others despite being improved by Adobe and others. I seek simplicity. I don't want to carry a large kit (my 'small' Fuji stuff gets remarkable large with all the different lens options I find myself with)

 

Part of that equation has been using the wonderful little iPhone camera. While still having a lot of limitations for day to day snapshots it is surprisingly capable. I have been leaning towards a Q for its capabilities in both automatic and manual operation. I can use it how I want for my artistic outlet, but still hand it to someone to grab a snap of my and the family. Recently however I have found myself looking at a M240 for under $3,000 USD. Not the prettiest thing, but fully functional. I want to keep my spend lower if I go this direction as well. The seller also has a couple inexpensive lenses to get me started. A 40mm Sumicron and a 35mm Skopar 2.5.  Oh, I also wear glasses with reading lenses required for close-up. 

 

The entire RF form factor aside because I won't really know until I try it, would I have any regrets going with the M240 over the Q? My impression is that this is still a quite viable system, with the functionality of interchangeable lenses. Any thoughts on with either lens option I've mentioned?  When shooting the Fuji, my favorite lens is the 23mm which give me an approximate 35mm FOV.   The M10 is simply not an option for me. I simply cannot spend that amount on the system at this time. 

 

I know my questions are generic, and probably a bit rambling. I have been reading through many posts here and most of those have positioned the M240 as still quite viable. I suspect that hasn't changed much.  I'd be particularly interested in thoughts on the glass. 

 

Thank you in advance!

Hello Michael,

Welcome to our friendly forum!  I am Dennis, and I use a M240.

I would like to distill your questions into the following points:

1. You like 35mm focal length - so do I

Dennis:  In my dreamland, I would own a Leica 35mm Summicron or Summilux, but I have been a happy owner of Voigtlander 35mm f/1.7 ASPH Ultron.

 

2. You like to carry lightweight camera system which will serve your photography needs to about 80%

Dennis: For Leica system, a 35mm, a 50mm, and a 90mm will probably satisfy your needs.  I have owned a Voigtlander 35mm, and Leica 50mm & 90mm.

 

3. You would like to spend around US$3000 +/- 10%

Dennis: A like-new (90% new) M240 in US market will cost around US$3400

 

4. You are new to rangefinder camera system, and you would like to try it.

Dennis: Leica is my first rangefinder system, and I like it.  You may want to try it at your local Leica shop or rent it before you buy it.

For me, using rangefinder camera is all about user experiences.  With a rangefinder optical viewfinder plus a RF patch, you are free to create your arts :-)!  I do not like to look at EVF.  I only use non-rangefinder-coupled lenses for fun because I must use EVF for these lenses.  Furthermore, M-mount lenses are much smaller than Leica T/TL/SL-mount lenses, and I appreciate this fact.  Last, I do not like lenses with electronics in them, and Leica M-mount lenses have none!

 

5. You would like to know about our thoughts on Leica lenses and/or lenses that we have used on our M240

Dennis: In my dreamland, I would own only Leica lenses.  In reality, I own Leica M-mount lenses, Canon LTM lenses which are also rangefinder-coupled, Jupiter-3 LTM, and Carl Zeiss SLR lenses with dummy adapters.  For Carl Zeiss SLR lenses, I have to use my Olympus EVF-2 to focus.

 

In general, Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses (M-mount) are excellent for your M240 with fractions of Leica M lenses' costs.

Frame lines are important to me when I use optical viewfinder to compose and focus with the rangefinder patch.

I also wear reading glasses, and I have found that M240 optical viewfinder is adequate for me.

 

A bit info about me:

1. I have owned a Canon 1DM3 + 400mm f/2.8L II USM for surfing photography (backup camera body is Canon 40D)

2. I have owned a Nikon D700 + 80-400mm for surfing photography when I do not want to haul my heavy Canon system around

3. I had owned Fujifilm X-Pro1 and Fujifilm X-T1, and I own a Fujifim X-M1 now.  I had sold my Xpro1 & X-T1 since I bought my M240.

4. I carry my Leica M240 and Exa film camera with me everywhere I go

5. I use Lightroom standalone, and I refuse to switch to Adobe's CC.

 

You can PM me for any question, I will try to share with you my limited experiences.

 

Just for your info, here is my M240 with some of my lenses that I have been using with it:

(I had bought my M240 used from a reputable online dealer for US$3200 with 6-month warranty)

Happy Father's Day to all of my flickr friends who celebrate this special holiday when Dads can ask for more budgets from Moms to buy more lenses by Bluesky Overaquatic, on Flickr

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by blueskyoveraquatic

[lasousa]

Hi Michael, I have owned an M240 for about 6 months.  I also own a Fuji XT2 and many Fuji lenses.  

 

First off, the M240 is quite a heavy body, much heavier I think than your Fuji body.  Size-wise, there is not a great deal of difference between the two.

 

I am not a Leica expert by any means.  I have been taking pictures avidly for much less time than other dedicates.   

 

Simplifying:  If you are interested in simplifying, a simple solution is to simplify your Fuji carry.  An XPro2 and a 35mm F 1.4 lens makes a good compact and light kit.  Or perhaps the XT20 will fit.  This way, you don't have to spend to simplicity.

 

That said since purchasing the M240 (second-hand) I have not used my Fuji.  Why?  Well, simplicity.  With the Leica I am happy 99% of the time with one camera and one lens in my bag.  I know what I have and adapt to that.  The lack of choices in gear frees up the imaging process.  I have not yet sold the Fuji system because it does have a place the Leica as yet does not fill for me.  Long exposures is one.  The M is very limited in this regard natively.   Neutral density filters can offset this difference, but the Fuji system is perfect for long exposures with in-camera time up to (I think) 30 minutes.  A second thing that comes to mind are the Fuji film simulations.  If you like tinkering with this in-camera, the M is more limited with less choices.   In the Fuji, I like the chrome setting very much.  Odd, this discussion means I will shot my Fuji today!

 

My Lenses:  My kit consists of the M240 body along with the following lenses:  Summicron 50, later version with sliding hood; Zeiss Biogon 35/2; Elmarit 28/2.8.  I also shoot the collapsible 50 Summicron (usually on my M3), a great lens for the compact quest but not recommended as a "first" lens - it's hard to find a good one, glass is soft and prone to scratching, etc.  I highly recommend the Zeiss Biogon as a first lens.  It matches the M's frame-lines, is compact, well built, wonderful rendering of colors and sharpness and depth.  My most used lens is the new 50mm Summicron.  If you can stretch for a lens, I recommend this one.  It is less expensive on the used market than the 35mm Summicron, and image quality can leave you speechless.  The Fuji lenses are without exception simply fantastic.  I own quite a few, none disappoints.

 

IQ:  Image quality is very good in both systems.  Sharpness differs.  The Leica lenses render sharpness differently and this is hard to quantify.  To me, there is a more organic sharpness and color rendering in the Leica lenses and Leica M240.  The Zeiss lens is more akin to the Fuji rendering.

 

Colors:  The colors from the M240's new sensor have been controversial.  I like them very much.  There is great depth and latitude in them.

 

Versatility/Features:  The Fuji system has more versatility, partly from the plethora of adjustments for shooting setup in the many volumed menus.  I personally like the Leica for its simplicity in this regard.   Less menu pages, less choices, more time just shooting.  Filters can be used on the Leica system, but the Fuji system is much more adaptable to them, especially square systems like the Lee Seven5.  I haven't tried my Lee Seven Five on the Leica.  That said, using my 28mm I have shot some beautiful landscape images with both film and digital Leicas (have owned an M3 and M6 for a long time) with no filters.   Filter systems will work from either using the LCD as a finder or the auxiliary finder.  I do own the auxiliary viewfinder.  It is good and blends in well ergonomically.  

 

The M is a slower camera.  There is a small lag between the shutter press and the image, where there is none with the Fuji.  The lag takes some getting used to, but one adapts.

 

Focus Peaking:  The focus peaking on the Fuji system is top of the line.  This is important for me since I wear glasses but like to shoot without them.  I haven't had good success with the Leica focus peaking - it is not even close to the quality of the Fuji.  From this I have installed a diopter correction adapter on the M.

 

Portability:  The Leica system lenses are more compact.  Example the 23mm F 1.4 Fuji vs the 28 mm Elmarit.  It is easier for me to bag 3 Leica lenses than three Fuji lenses.  The only time I might carry more than one Leica lens would be on a hike or on holiday where subjects might have great variation.  One lens is usually all I need.  

 

That is about all I have.  I don't know if you have already pulled the trigger, and if not I hope this helps.  Lou.

 

 

[lasousa]

Hi Michael:  one more point, I could go on and on.  

 

High ISO.  The M is pretty good at higher ISO.  I went on a shoot with my friend who was using an M9 and the M240 was a great leap forward from that camera.  But the Fuji is other-worldly in this regard.  There is no comparison between the XPro2 and the M, if this is important to you.  It is another reason that keeps me from selling my Fuji, at least for now.

[jmahto]

Hi Michael, I have owned an M240 for about 6 months. I also own a Fuji XT2 and many Fuji lenses.

 

First off, the M240 is quite a heavy body, much heavier I think than your Fuji body. Size-wise, there is not a great deal of difference between the two.

 

I am not a Leica expert by any means. I have been taking pictures avidly for much less time than other dedicates.

 

Simplifying: If you are interested in simplifying, a simple solution is to simplify your Fuji carry. An XPro2 and a 35mm F 1.4 lens makes a good compact and light kit. Or perhaps the XT20 will fit. This way, you don't have to spend to simplicity.

 

That said since purchasing the M240 (second-hand) I have not used my Fuji. Why? Well, simplicity. With the Leica I am happy 99% of the time with one camera and one lens in my bag. I know what I have and adapt to that. The lack of choices in gear frees up the imaging process. I have not yet sold the Fuji system because it does have a place the Leica as yet does not fill for me. Long exposures is one. The M is very limited in this regard natively. Neutral density filters can offset this difference, but the Fuji system is perfect for long exposures with in-camera time up to (I think) 30 minutes. A second thing that comes to mind are the Fuji film simulations. If you like tinkering with this in-camera, the M is more limited with less choices. In the Fuji, I like the chrome setting very much. Odd, this discussion means I will shot my Fuji today!

 

My Lenses: My kit consists of the M240 body along with the following lenses: Summicron 50, later version with sliding hood; Zeiss Biogon 35/2; Elmarit 28/2.8. I also shoot the collapsible 50 Summicron (usually on my M3), a great lens for the compact quest but not recommended as a "first" lens - it's hard to find a good one, glass is soft and prone to scratching, etc. I highly recommend the Zeiss Biogon as a first lens. It matches the M's frame-lines, is compact, well built, wonderful rendering of colors and sharpness and depth. My most used lens is the new 50mm Summicron. If you can stretch for a lens, I recommend this one. It is less expensive on the used market than the 35mm Summicron, and image quality can leave you speechless. The Fuji lenses are without exception simply fantastic. I own quite a few, none disappoints.

 

IQ: Image quality is very good in both systems. Sharpness differs. The Leica lenses render sharpness differently and this is hard to quantify. To me, there is a more organic sharpness and color rendering in the Leica lenses and Leica M240. The Zeiss lens is more akin to the Fuji rendering.

 

Colors: The colors from the M240's new sensor have been controversial. I like them very much. There is great depth and latitude in them.

 

Versatility/Features: The Fuji system has more versatility, partly from the plethora of adjustments for shooting setup in the many volumed menus. I personally like the Leica for its simplicity in this regard. Less menu pages, less choices, more time just shooting. Filters can be used on the Leica system, but the Fuji system is much more adaptable to them, especially square systems like the Lee Seven5. I haven't tried my Lee Seven Five on the Leica. That said, using my 28mm I have shot some beautiful landscape images with both film and digital Leicas (have owned an M3 and M6 for a long time) with no filters. Filter systems will work from either using the LCD as a finder or the auxiliary finder. I do own the auxiliary viewfinder. It is good and blends in well ergonomically.

 

The M is a slower camera. There is a small lag between the shutter press and the image, where there is none with the Fuji. The lag takes some getting used to, but one adapts.

 

Focus Peaking: The focus peaking on the Fuji system is top of the line. This is important for me since I wear glasses but like to shoot without them. I haven't had good success with the Leica focus peaking - it is not even close to the quality of the Fuji. From this I have installed a diopter correction adapter on the M.

 

Portability: The Leica system lenses are more compact. Example the 23mm F 1.4 Fuji vs the 28 mm Elmarit. It is easier for me to bag 3 Leica lenses than three Fuji lenses. The only time I might carry more than one Leica lens would be on a hike or on holiday where subjects might have great variation. One lens is usually all I need.

 

That is about all I have. I don't know if you have already pulled the trigger, and if not I hope this helps. Lou.

Why would you use focus peaking with M240 and normal range M lenses! Defeats the whole RF advantage.

[jaapv]

The shutter lag on the M240 is 40 mSec which is unnoticeable.  The Fuji has 50 mSec, which is unnoticeable too.

Unless you use advanced metering, which I would discourage, precisely for the lag it introduces.

 

As to focus peaking, I think you failed to grasp the idea behind it. For mirrorless cameras like Fuji and Sony, focus peaking is tweaked for use at medium focal lengths - and it should be. For an M camera that would be the wrong choice, as one is supposed to use the rangefinder in that case. So the Leica focus peaking is designed for use with long to very long lenses. In practice it is really excellent in that discipline, whereas the Sonies I tried ( no Fujis, sorry) are useless as the lenses get longer.
 

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Hallo,

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[_Michael]

Thank you all for the fantastic feedback. I have a much better idea of direction, and what to expect. I will be taking my time to make the right decision, but I am much more confident in that process now.   

 

Cheers