Considering pre-owned M240, need help with lens question as well

[_Michael]

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Hello all, 

 

I have been reading here for some time, but I believe this is my first post. Thank you all for your participation so people like me may learn about the Leica systems and options. 

 

I warn ahead of time; this is another one of those post seeking purchase advice. 

 

I am at a point with my photography where I am simply done with having too many systems, too many options and too many mini-computers. I have been shooting for 35-40 years, and have used a number of different analog and digital systems in both a personal and professional manner. Notably lacking is my experience with Leica or really any other rangefinder system. Current gear includes a mix of FujiFilm (X-pro2, Xt-2) and Canon (1DX, !DSmk3, L-glass to 500mm prime). Shooting now days is primarily business travel, personal travel, street scenes, some landscape but hotting terribly serious, as well as volunteer sports work for organizations like Special Olympics.   As much as I like the smaller Fuji system, there is something missing there and honestly the post-processing part is cumbersome compared to every other system I have used. The raw files are so much slower than others despite being improved by Adobe and others. I seek simplicity. I don't want to carry a large kit (my 'small' Fuji stuff gets remarkable large with all the different lens options I find myself with)

 

Part of that equation has been using the wonderful little iPhone camera. While still having a lot of limitations for day to day snapshots it is surprisingly capable. I have been leaning towards a Q for its capabilities in both automatic and manual operation. I can use it how I want for my artistic outlet, but still hand it to someone to grab a snap of my and the family. Recently however I have found myself looking at a M240 for under $3,000 USD. Not the prettiest thing, but fully functional. I want to keep my spend lower if I go this direction as well. The seller also has a couple inexpensive lenses to get me started. A 40mm Sumicron and a 35mm Skopar 2.5.  Oh, I also wear glasses with reading lenses required for close-up. 

 

The entire RF form factor aside because I won't really know until I try it, would I have any regrets going with the M240 over the Q? My impression is that this is still a quite viable system, with the functionality of interchangeable lenses. Any thoughts on with either lens option I've mentioned?  When shooting the Fuji, my favorite lens is the 23mm which give me an approximate 35mm FOV.   The M10 is simply not an option for me. I simply cannot spend that amount on the system at this time. 

 

I know my questions are generic, and probably a bit rambling. I have been reading through many posts here and most of those have positioned the M240 as still quite viable. I suspect that hasn't changed much.  I'd be particularly interested in thoughts on the glass. 

 

Thank you in advance!

 

 

[a.noctilux]

Welcome Michael,

 

For a first lens for M240, each one can be good to discover, Summicron 40mm or Scopar 35mm.

In RF use, no 40mm framelines, but with a while using the 40mm, you may figure out how the framing would be.

 

I had one Summicron-C 40mm long ago with a CLE, nice combo but with M, my preference went to "real 35mm Summicron".

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[lct]

Welcome to the forum. I like much the Summicron 40/2 but due to the lack of proper framelines, i would not advise it if you don't have much experience with rangefinders. The Skopar 35/2.5 is a very good lens if you don't dislike its OoF rendition (bokeh balls with hard edges) but it is a bit soft on edges and corners below f/5.6. Among affordable lenses, the Zeiss Biogon 35/2.8 has better performances if you like contrasty results. It is my favorite "slow" 35 irrespective of price personally but this is a matter of tastes obviously.

[T00m]

Get a Summarit 35 which is a affordable little and stunning Lens.

[Jean-Michel]

Welcome to the forum too. I have been a Leica user since my school days in the late 60's. I now use an M9 and an MP (240). While I prefer working with these cameras they do not replace my Canon gear for some work (I must say that the Canons did replace my Hasselblad cameras went I wen 'digital').

 

I don't imagine that you will stop using your Canons when photographing sports and such. But for much of your other photographing the Leica may well be the trick once you re-learn all things manual.

 

Since you are wearing prescription glasses, you might find it useful to see if a correction diopter would help – probably would. The eyepiece on the M is set to minus 0.5 diopters. The easy solution is to visit your optician with your camera and try diopters between your eyeglasses and the eyepiece, then buy the correct diopter lens from Leica. It does make a difference in viewing and focusing.

 

I never used a Q, but, yes, you should be able to lend it to anyone to take a shot with it since it will auto focus; not so easily for the M.

 

As A.Noctilux mentions, there are no 40 mm frames in the viewfinder. I have no experience with either of the two lenses you mention. For decades I used a 'goggled' 35 Summicron so that the 35 mm FOV would be seen within the 50 mm frame. Please note that with eyeglasses, the 35 mm frame is difficult to see all at once, you get to develop a particular sweeping motion in order to see all the frame, and you may get to scratch your eyeglasses in the process. On my film M's I glued a rubber washer around the eyepiece, and on the digital M's I apply a slippery tape (used for woodworking jigs) around the eyepiece to avoid the scratches. 

 

I just checked my Montreal dealer's website, and a 35 Skopar, new, is only $560 Canadian. 

 

Hope that this helps a bit.

 

Jean-Michel

Edited June 26, 2018 by Jean-Michel

[Luke_Miller]

I never used a Q, but, yes, you should be able to lend it to anyone to take a shot with it since it will auto focus; not so easily for the M.

I was at lunch with friends and took a few shots with my M-240.  Another customer offered to take a shot with my camera so I could be in it.  I thanked her but declined.  I had no reasonable expectation she would be able to focus using my rangefinder. 

[jdlaing]

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I was at lunch with friends and took a few shots with my M-240.  Another customer offered to take a shot with my camera so I could be in it.  I thanked her but declined.  I had no reasonable expectation she would be able to focus using my rangefinder.

 

That’s a bad assumption. She might have surprised you.

[Exodies]

It wouldn’t have done any harm to try.

[luigi bertolotti]

It's all about the Rangefinder… first time after 35-40 years of photographing…  : not a great problem with a 35mm … but imho thinking to have a M means, logically, to expand your focals.. even if to 3-4 only (starting with a 35 is perfect… good addition can be 21 75 and some luminous 50... and you can get such an equipment at a not so high cost, considering Leica used and CV and Zeiss).

BUT... you must really LIKE to use the RF… my suggestion is, if possible, to give a 2-3 days try to the system : 3000 US$ for a M240 is rather good (and I don't insist that M240 is an excellent tool : it's MY Leica, love it, so I'm biased…  ).  If you decide that RF isn't for you, You will spare good money… and could think to the CL…  

[CharlesL]

I have used both Fuji X cameras and an M240. I agree with your statement, "there is something missing there," although I won't try here to say what that something is, ha ha.

As for processing the shots, M240 files require as much attention and care as Fuji X files. It is a rare M240 JPG that is good out of the camera, while Fuji JPGs are quite good, even though I like to get the most by starting from the raw files. I use Raw Therapee then Picture Window Pro for both systems.
 

[steamboat]

I was at lunch with friends and took a few shots with my M-240.  Another customer offered to take a shot with my camera so I could be in it.  I thanked her but declined.  I had no reasonable expectation she would be able to focus using my rangefinder. 

 

You tell the person to stand where they want to take the picture. Better yet you tell them to stand where YOU want them to take the picture. From where you're going to be photographed you focus on the volunteer photographer, hand her the camera and tell her to shoot away but to only push the release button - don't touch the lens. Anyway, that's what I do. Works great and they have fun. Almost always when you hand them the camera the comment is, "gee, it's heavy." LOL 

[_Michael]

Thank you all very much for the input. It gives me a lot to think about. 

 

@CharlesL : regarding the processing, one of my biggest challenges and frustrations I suppose, is the import time for processing. I am a Lightroom user since pre version 1. I would guessI could import 4 DNG files in the time it takes to ingest a single RAF. 

[CharlesL]

I could import 4 DNG files in the time it takes to ingest a single RAF. 

 

Lightroom being a given for you, a two-step process might be faster: use the free Adobe DNG Converter to turn the RAF into a DNG, then import the DNG into Lightroom. On my old slow Windows 7 machine, it takes about six second to convert one of the 49 MB RAF files. Can be done as a batch, too.

 

[jmahto]

Hello all, 

 

I have been reading here for some time, but I believe this is my first post. Thank you all for your participation so people like me may learn about the Leica systems and options. 

 

I warn ahead of time; this is another one of those post seeking purchase advice. 

 

I am at a point with my photography where I am simply done with having too many systems, too many options and too many mini-computers. I have been shooting for 35-40 years, and have used a number of different analog and digital systems in both a personal and professional manner. Notably lacking is my experience with Leica or really any other rangefinder system. Current gear includes a mix of FujiFilm (X-pro2, Xt-2) and Canon (1DX, !DSmk3, L-glass to 500mm prime). Shooting now days is primarily business travel, personal travel, street scenes, some landscape but hotting terribly serious, as well as volunteer sports work for organizations like Special Olympics.   As much as I like the smaller Fuji system, there is something missing there and honestly the post-processing part is cumbersome compared to every other system I have used. The raw files are so much slower than others despite being improved by Adobe and others. I seek simplicity. I don't want to carry a large kit (my 'small' Fuji stuff gets remarkable large with all the different lens options I find myself with)

 

Part of that equation has been using the wonderful little iPhone camera. While still having a lot of limitations for day to day snapshots it is surprisingly capable. I have been leaning towards a Q for its capabilities in both automatic and manual operation. I can use it how I want for my artistic outlet, but still hand it to someone to grab a snap of my and the family. Recently however I have found myself looking at a M240 for under $3,000 USD. Not the prettiest thing, but fully functional. I want to keep my spend lower if I go this direction as well. The seller also has a couple inexpensive lenses to get me started. A 40mm Sumicron and a 35mm Skopar 2.5.  Oh, I also wear glasses with reading lenses required for close-up. 

 

The entire RF form factor aside because I won't really know until I try it, would I have any regrets going with the M240 over the Q? My impression is that this is still a quite viable system, with the functionality of interchangeable lenses. Any thoughts on with either lens option I've mentioned?  When shooting the Fuji, my favorite lens is the 23mm which give me an approximate 35mm FOV.   The M10 is simply not an option for me. I simply cannot spend that amount on the system at this time. 

 

I know my questions are generic, and probably a bit rambling. I have been reading through many posts here and most of those have positioned the M240 as still quite viable. I suspect that hasn't changed much.  I'd be particularly interested in thoughts on the glass. 

 

Thank you in advance!

Welcome Michael. If you get the hang of RF then you will certainly enjoy it. But it certainly won't replace your entire existing kit (long lenses and all). It totally depends on what you shoot. 

 

I will vote for the 40 summicron-C. I like it so much that I have created a flickr album of my shots here. Most on M240.

 

Due to lack of 40mm frame lines, it remains under appreciated which is a good thing for buyers. My 50 lux ASPH gets less used because of this lens! At least my copy is sharp all over if I close it a little (f/4). Not exactly a people lens (50 lux or longer will be better) but an all rounder for me. I love its small size. Makes M240 really compact. If you get this lens then get the series5.5 adapter ring since the thread on the lens is non standard. It is cheaply available on eBay. After that you can get a cheap metal lens hood (it came with crappy rubber hood) if you want. Due to all these idiosyncrasies, this lens is much cheaper in the market than its fair value. There is no compromise in the image quality though.

[Luke_Miller]

That’s a bad assumption. She might have surprised you.

 Possibly, but one of the main reasons I am behind the camera is so I won't be in front of it. 

[jaapv]

Welcome Michael. If you get the hang of RF then you will certainly enjoy it. But it certainly won't replace your entire existing kit (long lenses and all). It totally depends on what you shoot. 

 

I will vote for the 40 summicron-C. I like it so much that I have created a flickr album of my shots here. Most on M240.

 

Due to lack of 40mm frame lines, it remains under appreciated which is a good thing for buyers. My 50 lux ASPH gets less used because of this lens! At least my copy is sharp all over if I close it a little (f/4). Not exactly a people lens (50 lux or longer will be better) but an all rounder for me. I love its small size. Makes M240 really compact. If you get this lens then get the series5.5 adapter ring since the thread on the lens is non standard. It is cheaply available on eBay. After that you can get a cheap metal lens hood (it came with crappy rubber hood) if you want. Due to all these idiosyncrasies, this lens is much cheaper in the market than its fair value. There is no compromise in the image quality though.

Some of these cheap eBay rings have to be removed with a hacksaw - imprecise threads combined with aluminium will make an unbreakable weld. Better buy the original hood, you can use the glass of a 39 mm filter behind it, it will have a slight rattle.

[Ko.Fe.]

I had Skopar 35 three times at film and digital M. It is second better than nothing lens. First better than nothing lens is Jupiter-12.

But Skopar is better among those two. Technically. It is sharp, OK colors and contrast, it has no funky buzz in bokeh, no ugly distortions. And it has absolutely no pop. Skopar 35 2.5 always made me to want another lens. But every time I need most affordable, no flaws and modern 35mm, I'm buying Skopar 35.

And I'm keeping J-12, it is a gift from rangefinder.ru member.

 

Summicron 40 is too close to 35mm lens. Try it, sell it if you don't like it. I had it's copy as Rokkor Minolta and sold it because I have 35mm lenses.

[sblutter]

I have & use both happily, love their compactness,  The Summi is a tad 'mellower' to my eye & prefer it in low light.  They are equally sharp.

 

In all Leicas the framelines are best thought of as a guide, are only precise at certain distances (there's much written about that you can look up). 

 

I suggest leaving some cropping room rather than trying to get the edges perfect.  If you use the same lens a lot, what it captures becomes 2nd nature in time. You can practice on a tripod & check the LCD

[jmahto]

Some of these cheap eBay rings have to be removed with a hacksaw - imprecise threads combined with aluminium will make an unbreakable weld. Better buy the original hood, you can use the glass of a 39 mm filter behind it, it will have a slight rattle.

I am not sure which ring do I have but it is not stuck. I never screw in my round metal hoods on any lens too tightly and it moves little bit all the time. If someone is really paranoid then they can put a light grease on the thread.

 

If I understand correctly, the original hood for 40 summicron-C was a rubber hood. Where will you find it in good condition!

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Hallo,

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[darylgo]

The M240 is a very capable camera, the M10 while being introduced later has less capabilities, less battery capacity.  The M240, while the rangefinder is exceptionally good, if you find it difficult to use or difficult in certain situations you can add the evf or use the rear lcd for live view.   Leica is unique with three finders/focusing, rangefinder, evf and lcd and you can also add an optical viewfinder to the accessory shoe makes four.