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Noctilux f/1 soft?


ELAN

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Have you actually tried the lens with live view just to see how good it could be? I also wouldn't agree that Noctilux is better than others as both my Canon 1.2L and old Nikon 55mm 1.2 are both sharper wide open but I don't think thats a fair comparison as it a lot harder do get a sharp image with a f1 etc lens.

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Have you actually tried the lens with live view just to see how good it could be?

 

Yes I did, but I get more accurate focus with the OVF.  While my eyes aren't perfect I usually nail focus 80% of the time with my 50 Summilux asph wide open, especially with the M10's viewfinder, so I'm pretty confident that some of Noctilux test shots I made were in focus.  In some cases I had the subject in a slant, like when one eye is closer to the camera, to ensure that something is always in the plane of focus.

 

My conclusion is that the Noctilux f/1 is quite soft wide open, as confirmed by some of the posts in this tread, and that my Noctilux is probably within spec and there's nothing wrong with it.  With that settled I began taking some photos, mostly portraits, and I do like how they are turning out.

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The Canon 0.95 is of 1961.

The Nocti 1.2 is of 1966, clear an answer to Canon.

 

Here the rear part of the Canon. Please notice the connection to the rangefinder mechanism in the camera.

Jan

 

attachicon.gifS_3.jpg

 

I've always had a Canon ƒ0.95 since it became available. In all, I have had five, two left on the original Canon, three converted to Leica M. Two conversions did not work out. The third is good. Sample variations were significant,  so if one wants to experiment then choose well, and good luck. Given the difficulty for conversion and their high prices I would buy a Noctilux today, but I do not know which just yet.

 

The first was on the Canon RF and purchased for daily newspaper work and used largely for low light street work. Not one single frame was published, although I had a few personal keepers.

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I am going through the same thing but with a 50f1.1 Nokton vice the Noctilux.  It is a funky lens and shot wide open the depth of field is almost non existent.  Of course, the depth of field would be the same on any 50 given the same distance and aperture.  I am finding it a difficult lens to use compared to the 50f2 so I don't think it will ever be my everyday carry lens.

 

Having said that there are times when an aperture of f1 does bring home a photo when another lens of f1.4 or f2 would not.  I think it just takes getting used to the lens and luckily digital gives instant feedback.

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Yes I did, but I get more accurate focus with the OVF.  While my eyes aren't perfect I usually nail focus 80% of the time with my 50 Summilux asph wide open, especially with the M10's viewfinder, so I'm pretty confident that some of Noctilux test shots I made were in focus.  In some cases I had the subject in a slant, like when one eye is closer to the camera, to ensure that something is always in the plane of focus.

 

My conclusion is that the Noctilux f/1 is quite soft wide open, as confirmed by some of the posts in this tread, and that my Noctilux is probably within spec and there's nothing wrong with it.  With that settled I began taking some photos, mostly portraits, and I do like how they are turning out.

 

At the end of the day, that is what matters.  :)

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f1 focus nailed on the daughter's right eye

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Please contnue to make pictures to document your daughter and wife. A picture every year can tell a part of the story. They are beautiful, too. How about one of the three of you?
 

Edited by pico
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Simply put the Noctilux 1.0 is not a “sharp” lens. I bought mine back in the film days and went through all of the send to Leica with camera to calibrate everything. Then went through it again with digital. Never “sharp” images. That being said I have taken some beautiful images with the 1.0 Noctilux. I will not part with mine, it gives a look like no other lens. I get best results with my M10 with the Visoflex attachment. Not all images are “in focus” but I get a much higher percentage of usable images with the Visoflex. I agree with Cartier-Bresson in that sharpness is sometimes over rated.

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I got a Noctilux f/1 this summer and couldn’t be more satisfied. I think I’ve been pretty lucky with my copy, since it focuses perfectly at all distances. I have almost ten years of experience from Canon 85mm f/1.2, which I mostly used wide open. And much of the technique with Leica isn’t that different (re-composing from the middle, etc.). So switching to Leica and Noctilux went pretty easy. 

 

Here is a collection of candid shots with my Noctilux, almost all taken at f/1.0:

 

https://spark.adobe.com/page/3k5IUAYESGxkI/

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I got a Noctilux f/1 this summer and couldn’t be more satisfied. I think I’ve been pretty lucky with my copy, since it focuses perfectly at all distances. I have almost ten years of experience from Canon 85mm f/1.2, which I mostly used wide open. And much of the technique with Leica isn’t that different (re-composing from the middle, etc.). So switching to Leica and Noctilux went pretty easy. 

 

Here is a collection of candid shots with my Noctilux, almost all taken at f/1.0:

 

https://spark.adobe.com/page/3k5IUAYESGxkI/

 

Wonderful photos!  Your photos make the point quite well, that sharpness is certainly not necessary to make a great photo.  (You have motivated me to have some fun with my R 80 1.4 today).

Rob

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Yes I did, but I get more accurate focus with the OVF.  While my eyes aren't perfect I usually nail focus 80% of the time with my 50 Summilux asph wide open, especially with the M10's viewfinder, so I'm pretty confident that some of Noctilux test shots I made were in focus.  In some cases I had the subject in a slant, like when one eye is closer to the camera, to ensure that something is always in the plane of focus.

 

My conclusion is that the Noctilux f/1 is quite soft wide open, as confirmed by some of the posts in this tread, and that my Noctilux is probably within spec and there's nothing wrong with it.  With that settled I began taking some photos, mostly portraits, and I do like how they are turning out.

I'm not saying use live view for taking pics more use it for testing the lens using a test chart etc that will tell you how good the rangefinder is calibrated. 

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  • 2 years later...
On 6/29/2018 at 4:34 AM, ELAN said:

 

Yes I did, but I get more accurate focus with the OVF.  While my eyes aren't perfect I usually nail focus 80% of the time with my 50 Summilux asph wide open, especially with the M10's viewfinder, so I'm pretty confident that some of Noctilux test shots I made were in focus.  In some cases I had the subject in a slant, like when one eye is closer to the camera, to ensure that something is always in the plane of focus.

 

My conclusion is that the Noctilux f/1 is quite soft wide open, as confirmed by some of the posts in this tread, and that my Noctilux is probably within spec and there's nothing wrong with it.  With that settled I began taking some photos, mostly portraits, and I do like how they are turning out.

This is a bit of an old thread that I had missed but I wanted to chime in hoping that ELAN would see this. I have owned my F1.2 Noctilux, my E58 Noctilux and my E60 first E60 version from 1981, and my E60 F1 copy is incredibly sharp. Just this past week I shot my .95 Noctilux against the F1 E60 and in the center of the image shot at approximately 5 feet distance to subject the F1 was within a few percentages of sharpness to the F .95 Noctilux. A few on this post stated that the new high resolution cameras (like the Leica SL2 at 47MP) would work against the F1 Noctilux, yet my experience is exactly the opposite. I've just spent a day shooting the SL2 with both the 0.95 Noctilux and the E60 1981 version Noctilux and the two "primary" differences were that the 0.95 Noct provides noticeably more 3D separation of the subject matter from background and the out of focus area is smoother. The colors on the .95 are a bit bluer and colder vs the F1 being a bit warmer and slightly more pastel, but for the lower weight and the more unique out of focus rendering of the F1 for me it is still my favorite Noctilux.

My F1.2 is simply gorgeous when the image works, but for me it has always been a bit harder to obtain that magic image whereas the F1 and 0.95 seem more predictable, but when I get that perfect image off of the f 1.2 Noct there is nothing like it. My Father who bought the F 1.2 with me new a long time ago had the same observation. 

I am wondering if the SL2's ability to easily zoom in 100% with the joy stick to ensure a perfect focus also assists with obtaining the best results from the F1. Lastly having owned all these lenses since new and also never having an issue with any of them I know how they work and focussing feels second nature. I hope ELAN kept the F1 and possibly had it again checked for alignment and also aligned with his rangefinder body as I would never state that my F1 Noctilux lenses are too soft. 

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Thanks for the feedback.  Yes, I still have my Noctilux f/1 and still use it from time to time.  Just before COVID I was in Wetzlar and had all my gear adjusted, including the f/1. Leica said there was a faulty part that was replaced (they didn’t say what, didn’t charge for the repair) and the lens checked for focus. Lens felt the same and the focus stayed the same and it’s still quite soft wide open. At f/1.2 it’s better.  I understand there’s sample variations with these lenses and some copies are a little softer than others. 
 

I do like the lens very much, and I do get fantastic photos with it. The bokeh at some distances is like a Monet painting, unlike any other lens. I will post a couple recent photos in the Noctilux wide open image thread.  

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As it is less than a week ago that my f1 v4 arrived, I have just read through this resurrected thread as anything 'Noctilux' is of interest.  Obviously early days yet as I try to become familiar with its capabilities (and foibles!).  Prompted by this thread, I just took one at MFD & f1 on my M10M (sorry, no attractive models available!).  Hand-held, 1/90sec, ISO 1600.  Seems to perform OK -  with a static subject anyway.  Lots more experimentation ahead!

 

 

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5 hours ago, Keith (M) said:

As it is less than a week ago that my f1 v4 arrived, I have just read through this resurrected thread as anything 'Noctilux' is of interest...

Many congrats, Keith! I noticed you had used a Noctilux when you shot the freight train and thought I hadn't previously seen you mention one so I did wonder.

I'll be interested to hear how you feel it performs in comparison to your Summilux which, I believe, you use quite a bit? Co-incidentally I've been toying with the idea of picking up one of the f1 v3 lenses for quite a while but don't know how much use I'd really get from using it at f1 and, to be perfectly honest, if I'm not shooting at f1 I'd be better off with my Summicron. Still; having a 50mm Noctilux is one of those itches which I feel should be scratched at some point in one's life...

I'll keep an eye out for more from yourself and your new lens!

Philip.

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So, reading through this thread it's clear that there are different opinions from different users regarding their Noct f1's and 75 Lux's.

I've owned the Noct .95 and currently own a new 50 Summilux, a 2002 Noct f1 and a 1989 75 Lux E60.

After reading through this thread I went back through my catalog and came to this conclusion. My 75 Lux is VERY sharp wide open in the center. At least as sharp as my 50 Lux. My F1 Noct is sharp in the middle at f1 but the glow is heavy (low contrast). So, it looks great unless you zoom to 100-150%. The Noct .95 reminded me of the new 50 Summilux, Super sharp in the center. I just didn't like the size of the .95, that and the fact that I had the 50 Lux which to me looked similar (same cooler color rendering and clinically perfect it seems).

To be honest, I'm not sure which lens I like better, the 50 Noct or the 75 Lux.

I have to use my EVF on my m10 when I'm shooting those wide apertures, kudos to those of you who can nail it through the RF, for me that's few and far between:)

 

Here's one wide open with my f1...no editing. I love the Bokeh (and the Pup)

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Edited by thatkatmat
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Just to ride on this thread a little by sharing my experience more recently. I've had a Noct f1 v4 for about 4 years now and in early 2020 sent it in to replace the front element due to some cosmetic scratches. When first I got the lens, it was just sent for 6bit coding and calibration and it worked fantastically well (except the front element scratches bothered me). After I got the lens back from the front element replacement, the lens back focused and the focus ring was less stiff than before. It went back to Germany for another round of calibration and came back at the end of 2020 more or less performing as it should and with the focus ring more damped.

However, I noticed 2 things. 1) is that I feel that the lens is less sharp than it was with the original front element. This part is purely down to gut feel and could be due to me using Asph lenses during the interim period, especially the 50APO. It still has the Noct f1 feel. Either way I can't really verify since I don't have "side by side pics" to compare the before and after pics. I do know of sample variation and never used this lens for critical sharpness anyway. 2) is that the lens is rather soft at infinity wide open to f2.8 (very distant buildings and trees, over 2km or 3km away). It's ok in terms of central sharpness from 3m to 50m, especially at f2 and f2.8, but further off the sharpness drops and I'm getting more outlines than sharpness. And vignetting. That said, the central sharpness is great from f4 onwards. The vignetting clears and the corners sharpen up nicely between f5.6 to f8, which is where I'd normally shoot at infinity anyway. I never noticed the infinity sharpness aspect before because...after trawling through years of pictures I've taken, I realised I never shot at infinity with this lens before (at least not for pics worth keeping) to refer back to this lens's pre-repair performance at infinity when I was re-checking and re-acquainting myself with this lens after I got it back properly. The performance at f5.6 to f8 is similar to other reviews of this lens on the web and the lens can definitely be relied on to shoot further distances. Just interesting to re-learn about a lens after a period away from it...and also made me value my 75lux more for the performance it gives even wide open.

Edited by chasdfg
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15 hours ago, pippy said:

Many congrats, Keith! I noticed you had used a Noctilux when you shot the freight train and thought I hadn't previously seen you mention one so I did wonder.

I'll be interested to hear how you feel it performs in comparison to your Summilux which, I believe, you use quite a bit? Co-incidentally I've been toying with the idea of picking up one of the f1 v3 lenses for quite a while but don't know how much use I'd really get from using it at f1 and, to be perfectly honest, if I'm not shooting at f1 I'd be better off with my Summicron. Still; having a 50mm Noctilux is one of those itches which I feel should be scratched at some point in one's life...

I'll keep an eye out for more from yourself and your new lens!

Philip.

Thanks, Philip.  

"Still; having a 50mm Noctilux is one of those itches which I feel should be scratched at some point in one's life..."   Definitely a factor in my long drawn-out decision-making process regarding acquiring one!  Quite some time ago I posted in the 'Wide Open' thread that I really should stop following it as the images uploaded there are very seductive.  Obviously I failed to heed my own advice...

It was only last Wednesday that the lens arrived so very clearly it is early days and the weather has not helped.  First impressions?  Physically it is not quite the beast I half-expected and its 630g is manageable (just!).  Apart from lots of indoor shots all at f1 & mostly at MFD with M10M, I've only managed two outdoor session firstly with my A7III (checking EVF / focus peaking etc) then Sunday on M10M.  Had hoped to be out & about with it on my M240 today but have been limited to indoor tests.  At some point I will endeavour to make some comparisons with the Summilux but my initial thinking is that the two lenses complement each other i.e. not a case of one being 'better' than the other.  I see usage being chosen on potential subject matter, mood (mine & environment) etc.  Certainly the Noctilux needs/demands a very studied approach so it is not a 'grab & go' lens whereas the Summilux is.

So, no regrets and looking forward to learning how to extract the best from the lens (or at least, try!).  As to sharpness at MFD & f1 - no concerns on that.  Today's example(M240)  below.

 

 

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