Xerxes2539 Posted June 25, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks to recommendations on here, I jumped ship from the dSLR world of Nikon (D700) and later Canon (SL1, I wanted something very tiny), and I picked up a T. My current outfit is: Leica T 23mm Summicron F/2 Visoflex EVF Jupiter 11 lens, with both adapters (third party) required to make it work. Leica red rop neck strap and red leather case As you can imagine, I absolutely LOVE this camera. I've taken it on multiple journeys and have been really enjoying being limited to 23mm. So glad I left the old 18-200 Nikkor behind. I also get stopped all the time and asked about my camera. No one cared when I had a Nikon or Canon. The EVF is really great, I really enjoy being able to look down into the camera like the old Rollei's. BUT....here is where it hinders me: I'm used to being able to look through the EVF and using a D-pad to quickly change my focus point. Being able to tap to focus on the screen is great, but only when I'm not using the EVF. So, with it in mind that I already spent the funds on the 23mm F/2, I started to look at the CL. I went into the LA Leica store and handled it, and while I prefer the style of the T series, I do like the focusing capabilities of the CL...Though I'd also lose the angled EVF, but then it wouldn't stick out of the top either. So many pro's and con's. But is it worth it to spend the money on a CL? ($2800 on eBay for a new CL body) just to get the focusing system? But...then they asked me if I was intending on buying more lenses, and I told them I would hope I don't. I like being limited to a prime lens and having to use my feet. I also really like fast lenses since I mostly shoot at nights. So...they handed me a Q. I hadn't really thought about the Q but then I really really liked the Summilux lens, who wouldn't? And the focusing issue would be solved. What would you do? Should I sell my T setup and buy a Q? Should I keep the T setup for the ability to change lenses down the road and get a Q? Should I just deal with the slow focusing issues of the T and stop giving Leica my money? What are your thoughts? Thanks for making it this far, if you did. Edited June 25, 2018 by Xerxes2539 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Hi Xerxes2539, Take a look here I love my T, but.... (long post, bear with me). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gbealnz Posted June 25, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 25, 2018 Hmmmm, depends what you want and how big your wallet is. I had a T, loved it. I have a Q, and enjoy it, but would go back to the T in a heartbeat. T with the 23 is fantastic. CL I've thought about, but can't get my head around ghecost difference, old T New CL. I realise the newer CL must be better, but.... In my case I'll end up with the Q and the T I suspect. Gary 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted June 25, 2018 Share #3 Posted June 25, 2018 I bought a T and all the lenses, sold the T when I purchased an SL. Rarely do I miss a camera that I sell, but I miss the T, it's a great size for travel, the IQ is great, the interface is fun if not easy at times. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted June 26, 2018 Share #4 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) I have the CL and I have the Q. I used to have the TL2. As between the CL, TL2 and Q, for me the Q has the best IQ and low light performance. If I had to have one camera to travel about it would be the Q, as 28mm suits me. The CL (or TL2) on the other hand has more versatility and will provide excellent IQ. If you want multiple lens options it certainly is the better choice. That's the trade-off: extraordinary IQ or excellent IQ with versatility. Ah, but that TL2! I have the CL and miss my TL2. IQ is similar to that of the CL, with a tad slower AF, but the looks and feel of it is fantastic. I've debated selling my CL to get the TL2 once again. So, it's 'groundhog day' for me once again (as Gary knows all too well. ) I suspect you know all of the pros and cons, too, just need to make a decision. As Yogi Berra once said: "When you get to the fork in the road, just take it". Rob Edited June 26, 2018 by ropo54 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted June 26, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 26, 2018 So, three out of three so far, T is hard to quantify, and hard to beat. The more I think of it, the more it seems Q and T/TL/TL2 for me. Really, no wrong answer. Gary 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted June 26, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 26, 2018 . . . . Should I just deal with the slow focusing issues of the T and stop giving Leica my money? What are your thoughts? That was the conclusion I came to. It’s only by comparison with faster cameras that focusing seems slow. It’s actually perfectly adequate for most purposes. I like the flexibility of the visoflex and the T interface so I will be sticking with this version of the camera. I may upgrade to the TL3 (if there is one) if it is improved in ways that matter to me. By the way, don’t be too quick to reject the TL zooms! They are extraordinarily good. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willux Posted June 26, 2018 Share #7 Posted June 26, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Over 35 years of photography as a hobby and I have never found the "perfect" camera but know the best camera to have at any moment is the one in your hands at the time. With that being said....having come from full manual focus Leica M's to an autofocus Canon 5D I struggled with the Canon having never had an AF camera, then found the thumbwheel to select the AF point second nature. When I got my TL (not TL2), found Leica's autofocus implementation a bit lacking at first. I had plenty of "why did I buy this stupid camera" moments and buyers remorse/frustration at the beginning....until I started approaching using it like an M camera. What works for me in the type of shooting I do 50% of the time is to use the "1 Point" option and while composing the shot, move the AF point with the thumbwheels to roughly to where I want it on the LCD, then bring my eye to the Visoflex for composition and then final focus (if necessary) manually while keeping my finger on the release. I shoot with the 23/2 and 35/1.4 and my satisfaction and number of keepers with the TL has increased considerably. And it's not far off in terms of my working speed with the M6 from looking at a scene, composing in the viewfinder to focus and "click". The other 50% of the time I use it in manual focus mode particularly with the 35/1.4 when I am shooting close up and wide open. I would imagine I would get dragged over hot coals on other user forums for making excuses for a camera that doesn't focus exactly where I want it within a nanosecond with micrometer accuracy and that I'm being too much of a Lecia apologist, but anyone who has ever shot an M knows the object of interest doesn't always magically fall on the rangefinder patch when you are composing in the viewfinder either. Is it compromise or just learning to work successfully with the limitations of the tool you are using? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 27, 2018 Share #8 Posted June 27, 2018 The more I think of it, the more it seems Q and T/TL/TL2 for me. That is what I had before I bought into the SL. I always used to take the Q and the T with the 18-55mm zoom with me. The Q covered 85% of my needs, the rest was covered by the T & zoom. It is a very powerful combination. Perhaps I should have stuck with it... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted June 27, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 27, 2018 Hard to accurately say/suggest either which way Joris. I had an SL, loved it, but was never going to buy into the SL lenses, too expensive and too large, FOR ME. Q, and T is perfect. Gary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernando_b Posted June 27, 2018 Share #10 Posted June 27, 2018 Hard to accurately say/suggest either which way Joris. I had an SL, loved it, but was never going to buy into the SL lenses, too expensive and too large, FOR ME. Q, and T is perfect. Gary I wish I had an SL! I love it... but, it's TOO EXPENSIVE for me, so i got a TL. The lenses: well i could rely on my R. Fernando. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted June 27, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 27, 2018 A Q and a T is a great combination. I wouldnt be satisfied with the Q alone due to fixed lens. And there is just something about the T design that keeps me going back to it, even though I have far superior cameras in my collection to pull from. I think its the size, and its simplicity. Am not a fan of lots of buttons on digital cameras, so think that is why appeals to me. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted June 27, 2018 Share #12 Posted June 27, 2018 A Q and a T is a great combination. I wouldnt be satisfied with the Q alone due to fixed lens. And there is just something about the T design that keeps me going back to it, even though I have far superior cameras in my collection to pull from. I think its the size, and its simplicity. Am not a fan of lots of buttons on digital cameras, so think that is why appeals to me. And I suspect many are in the same boat, the simplicity, but uniqueness of the T, it has appeal. Gary 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted July 5, 2018 Share #13 Posted July 5, 2018 Its back to the future for me as well. Bye-bye CL. Rob 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 5, 2018 Share #14 Posted July 5, 2018 Its back to the future for me as well. Bye-bye CL. Rob My heart would like to follow you, but my head says: no, I would regret it! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 5, 2018 Share #15 Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) My heart would like to follow you, but my head says: no, I would regret it! Does owning a CL and a TL2 count as conspicuous consumption? (It's the only solution I can think of). I suppose owning a camera with a red dot already counts as conspicuous consumption in most people's books. Edited July 5, 2018 by LocalHero1953 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted July 5, 2018 Share #16 Posted July 5, 2018 Does owning a CL and a TL2 count as conspicuous consumption? (It's the only solution I can think of). I suppose owning a camera with a red dot already counts as conspicuous consumption in most people's books. I can readily admit that the CL with its viewfinder and fast autofocus was the better performer, but I just never warmed to it. I found myself always wanting to take my original T instead . . . so I'm going to give the TL2 another try. Sometimes, these things just make no sense! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted July 5, 2018 Share #17 Posted July 5, 2018 I still have T, TL2 and CL. I almost exclusively have been shooting the CL though since it was released. The idea though was to keep the TL2 as a backup for the CL, also because long term I was thinking of getting out of the SL-system (size, weight and cost). After the TL2 and the CL I did expect some more APS-C announcements from Leica this year and needless to say sadly there has been nothing yet... Back to the TL2, after applying the firmware upgrade I took it out yesterday. It performed well. AF was very decent but it was a very bright day in Philadelphia as well. While shooting though I was reminded once more of the advantages of the CL and the reason why I additionally bought the CL: built-in (and better) viewfinder, much faster AF (with less hunting) and an easier way to change focus point. The CL is (and remains) undeniably the better performer even though there are a lot of things in the TL2 that I like (a lot) better... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted July 5, 2018 Share #18 Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) I still have T, TL2 and CL. I almost exclusively have been shooting the CL though since it was released. The idea though was to keep the TL2 as a backup for the CL, also because long term I was thinking of getting out of the SL-system (size, weight and cost). After the TL2 and the CL I did expect some more APS-C announcements from Leica this year and needless to say sadly there has been nothing yet... Back to the TL2, after applying the firmware upgrade I took it out yesterday. It performed well. AF was very decent but it was a very bright day in Philadelphia as well. While shooting though I was reminded once more of the advantages of the CL and the reason why I additionally bought the CL: built-in (and better) viewfinder, much faster AF (with less hunting) and an easier way to change focus point. The CL is (and remains) undeniably the better performer even though there are a lot of things in the TL2 that I like (a lot) better... Joris: "Back to the Future" meets "Groundhog Day"? Lol. I shall see. Rob Edited July 5, 2018 by ropo54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted July 5, 2018 Share #19 Posted July 5, 2018 Joris: "Back to the Future" meets "Groundhog Day"? Lol. I shall see. Rob I played with the TL2 a bit more today. The 1Point focus is actually pretty good! I typically shoot Spot focus which has improved but still has a way to go as well. Let us know how it goes, curious to hear! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted July 5, 2018 Share #20 Posted July 5, 2018 Groundhog indeed. My on again, off again affair with things T has resurfaced. In between times I have acquired a Q, but since my TL didn't find a home while on behalf in the UK, it is circuitously coming back to me. We will be reunited when we arrive in Europe mid August, and I will either stash it, or use it while we travel, alongside the Q, and a heap of film. I am looking forward to again having this quirky piece of art. Gary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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