photophile Posted June 22, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 22, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some of you use the M10 in the studio and on the road with off camera lighting. I am aware that only manual mode is "available" unless we use Leica flash units. When I try to use my pocket wizard ( for nikon ) configuration, I am only able to sync and fire up to 1/60, several stops below the native "sync speed" on the M10. At that (flash sync) mark, only half frame or total under ( black frame ) appears. When I use a Yongnuo or Cyber Commander ( both borrowed for testing purposes ) they work fine at native sync. Any ideas on how to get the PW to work at sync??? settings??? etc? Thanks...Coos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 Hi photophile, Take a look here M10 - off camera flash?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ru2far2c Posted June 22, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 22, 2018 Don't have a M10 yet I have similar issue with my M240's for flash sync. I had PW (nikon) 2 mini tt1, 4 flex tt5, AC3 controller and nikon SB90's and never got native sync. Could control out manually with AC3 most of the time. 1/60 was about the best I could do sync wise with m bodies and PW's which made it next to impossible to work out door in sun light. Open shade not so bad. Have since picked up a Profoto B2 with transmitter and I can sync at native speed. Have sold off all my nikon gear. Make sure your firmware is up to date not sure if that will make a difference or not to be honest for sync issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 22, 2018 Share #3 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) I had no problems with PW (Nikon version) Mini TT1 and Flex TT5, and the M240. I don't recall any teething problems (I no longer have them) - it just seemed bulletproof. I assume you've done any PW firmware set up that is necessary using the PW app? Not that I can remember if that affected sync speed. I used mainly Nikon SB28 or Profoto AcuteB2 flash. Sorry I can't help more - all I can say is that it should work! Edited June 22, 2018 by LocalHero1953 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) RU2FAR2C & Local Hero1953, thank you. It is odd that each of you have differing experiences with the PW rig and the 240. I am trying the mini TT1 and FlexTT5 combo - and yes, with the last firmware - and it just refuses to syn past 1/60th. I spoke with Leica TS in NJ, they were a bit stumped but said that some flashes drop the sync speed. All, rather odd. I am on the cusp of purchasing a profoto ( or equivalent ) - as I do not relish an intermittent lack of reliability on my shoots. ( yes, I always have back-up Nikons - but prefer the rendering of the Leicas). But the PW SHOULD work....grrr. And Paul - I visited your website. Very nice work! Best, Coos www.thetwofacesofrichard.com Edited June 23, 2018 by photophile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted June 23, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 23, 2018 RU2FAR2C & Local Hero1953, thank you. It is odd that each of you have differing experiences with the PW rig and the 240. I am trying the mini TT1 and FlexTT5 combo - and yes, with the last firmware - and it just refuses to syn past 1/60th. I spoke with Leica TS in NJ, they were a bit stumped but said that some flashes drop the sync speed. All, rather odd. I am on the cusp of purchasing a profoto ( or equivalent ) - as I do not relish an intermittent lack of reliability on my shoots. ( yes, I always have back-up Nikons - but prefer the rendering of the Leicas). But the PW SHOULD work....grrr. And Paul - I visited your website. Very nice work! Best, Coos www.thetwofacesofrichard.com Try switching your M10 to M mode. You should be able to sync without black band successfully at 1/125sec. In the past, I’ve managed to successfully sync up to 2/250 sec on my M240. Hv not tried on my current M10. Works on my SL, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 23, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 23, 2018 ............................. And Paul - I visited your website. Very nice work! Best, Coos www.thetwofacesofrichard.com Thanks, Coos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted June 24, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had some good suggestions thus far - but to no avail. Sync is still off kilter. Any other suggestions would be welcome. PW set to manual only, per suggestion of their tech support. Seems like a pre-flash TTL issue with nikon sb800, which can not be switched "off"....or a setting I am missing on the m10. Anyone? Otherwise - time for a new off camera system...pro foto or flashpoint / godox. I know that will be manual only - which is fine. But at least ( hopefully) it will work. Thanks. Coos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ru2far2c Posted June 25, 2018 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) I have had some good suggestions thus far - but to no avail. Sync is still off kilter. Any other suggestions would be welcome. PW set to manual only, per suggestion of their tech support. Seems like a pre-flash TTL issue with nikon sb800, which can not be switched "off"....or a setting I am missing on the m10. Anyone? Otherwise - time for a new off camera system...pro foto or flashpoint / godox. I know that will be manual only - which is fine. But at least ( hopefully) it will work. Thanks. Coos Photophile not sure where you located. Any way it may be worth your while to try and rent the gear you mentioned. Profoto makes several transmitters. If go with profoto Nikon tll you can always use it in manual with you leica’s to trip your flashes as I’m sure your already aware. I know nothing about flashpoint or godox gear except what I’ve read here and on other blogs. Adoroma usually has rental specials during holiday weekends. That way you could try out the gear before you buy. There have been plenty of folks out there that are super happy with godox. Just a thought if you have the time. I have other profoto gear so I went with profoto. Edited June 25, 2018 by ru2far2c Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted June 25, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2018 Seems like a pre-flash TTL issue with nikon sb800, which can not be switched "off"....or a setting I am missing on the m10. Anyone? Otherwise - time for a new off camera system...pro foto or flashpoint / godox. I know that will be manual only - which is fine. But at least ( hopefully) it will work. Since your SB-800 and the PW are Nikon dedicated the problem might be due to using them on a non-Nikon iTTL body. The SB-800 will not fire if set to TTL mode in that situation (even on an dTTL Nikon body). Setting the flash to Manual in its menu should eliminate any pre-flash. My SB-800s work fine on my digital M bodies in either Manual or Auto, both when in the camera hot shoe or when using a Nikon sync cord. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted June 26, 2018 Luke, Thank you. The SB800 works fine on the hotshoe in both manual and auto up to 1/180 ( sync) . Once it is attached to the pocket wizard, it fires out of sync. It seems to be a pw issue specific to the sb800. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted June 26, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 26, 2018 Luke, Thank you. The SB800 works fine on the hotshoe in both manual and auto up to 1/180 ( sync) . Once it is attached to the pocket wizard, it fires out of sync. It seems to be a pw issue specific to the sb800. Over on Nikonians there is a thread about a problem using the PocketWizards for TTL with the D850 and SB-800. The response from PW was they had a firmware update to correct the issue except with the SB-800, which was still problematic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted June 27, 2018 Luke, Thanks again. I will try the sb-900 ( a flash I do not really care for but still have in the closet) and see how that fares with the pw. In the meantime, a Godox ( for nikon) is on the way and should work fine in manual with the m10...Mark Wallace ( of Adorama fame) uses the m10 with profoto nikon all the time. Supposedly, equivalent in spec but cheaper in price. We shall see... Best, Coos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ru2far2c Posted June 27, 2018 Share #13 Posted June 27, 2018 Luke, Thanks again. I will try the sb-900 ( a flash I do not really care for but still have in the closet) and see how that fares with the pw. In the meantime, a Godox ( for nikon) is on the way and should work fine in manual with the m10...Mark Wallace ( of Adorama fame) uses the m10 with profoto nikon all the time. Supposedly, equivalent in spec but cheaper in price. We shall see... Best, Coos Coos- Will be interested in your results with the Godox. As I said all my nikon gear has been traded or sold off along with PW gear to fund other gear. As you have stated flash on camera in manual worked just fine. It's when a PW was introduced the issues came up. For me it was too inconsistent with the results I was getting and could never trust it. Not being able to get over 60th was frustrating as well. Good luck and hope your results are what your looking for in the end. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted June 27, 2018 Kevin - thanks. Will keep this thread posted with results - both of the sb900 and pw , as well as the godox ( flashpoint version ). Best, Coos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share #15 Posted June 28, 2018 To all who so kindly informed here: Today I received my new Flashpoint XPLOR 600 PRO TTL monolight and the accompanying R2 Wireless transmitter ( for Nikon). This is the Adorama version of the Godox unit. I am pleased to report that the coupled pair work seamlessly - at ALL SPEEDS UP TO and INCLUDING SYNC speed on the M10. The process is fully manual - but so easy with the transmitter controlling output from the hotshoe. I made virtually perfectly exposed images from the moment the unit was up. Stunningly simple. Tomorrow, I will actually do some lighting trials with modifiers etc, but FINALLY - viable studio use for the M10. I will try the SB900 tomorrow as well, with the pocket wizards...just to see if it was simply an SB800 / pw / leica incompatibility issue. Thanks again for all the input. I am...delighted with this new rig. Best, Coos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted June 28, 2018 First test : Flashpoint Xplor600 Pro TTL with Nikon R2 transmitter. Manual exposure. Single light source - with a phottix 60 cm deep octa. Two diffuser panels in place. No grid. No second light or fill for this image. Light box to subject about 1.5 meters. Sync speed ( native @ 1/180) 50 cron.f8. ISO 400. 1/8 power to flash. Only some sharpening and minor vignetting added in LR. In an ideal world, I would have used a larger aperture to blur the background. Room too short to move subject and way too much ambient light. The limitations of high speed sync (or lack thereof ) in the M10. Yet, I do see an active role, finally, for the M10 in the studio. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285838-m10-off-camera-flash/?do=findComment&comment=3545668'>More sharing options...
vkapoor Posted June 29, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 29, 2018 Hi everyone, I too am looking to implement an off camera flash with my M10 for environmental portraits/documentary work. Is there a way to employ HSS with a non-Leica flash, ie a Profoto B2 or Elinchrom ELB400? If not what are some common workarounds for getting a shallow depth of field on but needing to overpower the sun? Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted June 29, 2018 Share #18 Posted June 29, 2018 Hi everyone, I too am looking to implement an off camera flash with my M10 for environmental portraits/documentary work. Is there a way to employ HSS with a non-Leica flash, ie a Profoto B2 or Elinchrom ELB400? If not what are some common workarounds for getting a shallow depth of field on but needing to overpower the sun? Thank you! You can fool the M10 / SL into firing at HSS by either connecting a Leica dedicated flash with HSS capability through the camera Hotshoe or the commander SFC1 and connect your Profoto B2 either via IR trigger ( manual mode only) or another receiver ( Godox Nikon transmitters have a hotshoe above for one to mount a Leica flash or commander. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 29, 2018 Share #19 Posted June 29, 2018 After the fact - but - wireless triggers do have to do more work than a direct hot-shoe-to-flash connection (such as: determine which flash "group" 1/2/3/4 or A/B/C/D is selected, and code the radio signal for that group, and interpret that code at the receiver end). And while that takes place "at the speed of light," the trigger signal thus has to run through the transmitter circuitry and the receiver circuitry before the flash goes off, at a speed that is not infinitely fast. There is a small lag, and the lag may be very small, or only sorta small, depending on model, price, etc. My M10 with a (cheapo) 3rd-party transmitter/receiver unit doesn't sync perfectly at camera sync speed (1/180th sec) - a small sliver of the picture is black. It syncs fine when the shutter is open slightly longer (1/125), which allows more time for the radio electronics to do their thing and pop the flash, before the second shutter curtain starts to close. For what I do, that is "close enough" - but a better, more efficient unit would do better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 29, 2018 Share #20 Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) When I read technical issues regarding flash and some other modern photo-mechanics, part of my brain shuts down, goes dark. No kidding. Then visions of using Edison/Mazda flashbulbs arise. Flashbulbs are almost dead; long live flashbulbs! Edited June 29, 2018 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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