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2nd Lens to 50mm Apo

Wide angle 50mm apo

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#1 agencal

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 23:55

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Hi i have used m240 +50mm apo+24mm elmar for years and were very happy with them bıt then sold them all and bought Fuji GFX.It is a medium format camere and far better then Leica for landscape style photogtaphy but i really missed range finder experience and bought M10 with 50mm apo again.24mm Rlmar was like the wide angle of 50mm apo.It had great clearence and contrast even at the farest corners.
But i had to use evf every time i wanted to use 24mm and most of the time it was waitşng in my bag.
Now i am thinking of 28mm lenses.
1.28mm lux : too big for me
2.28mm summicron.Focus shift problem?
3.28mm Elmarit
Do you think Summicron or elmarit has the bitingly sharp clearence of 24mm elmar?I have bought 50mm apo becouse of its optical perfectness so i am not after historical charavter or look wiht bad cormers and blurry files.
Sould i buy 24 again or one of these 28z
Thanks

#2 jdlaing

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 00:20

What’s wrong with Fuji lenses?

#3 ianman

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:00

And aren't they supposed to be bringing out a MF rangerfinder soon ?


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#4 agencal

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:18

What’s wrong with Fuji lenses?


Where did i say fuji lenses are bad?

#5 helged

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:57

Having used the newest version of the three 28mm lenses you mention, I will say that the newest 28mm Elmarit-M is a very fine (and small and low-weight) lens. So if f2.8 is ok with you, and if the Elmarit-M is not too small for your hands, I would go for this lens.

Edited by helged, 13 June 2018 - 06:59.

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#6 Narsuitus

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:15

Sould i buy 24 again or one of these 28z

 

Buy the 24 again.


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#7 Ecar

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:43

Having used the newest version of the three 28mm lenses you mention, I will say that the newest 28mm Elmarit-M is a very fine (and small and low-weight) lens. So if f2.8 is ok with you, and if the Elmarit-M is not too small for your hands, I would go for this lens.

 

+1.

I have these 3 lenses (although the Summicron and the Elmarit are the ASPH v1 - and the Summilux is a recent purchase, so I don't have a firm opinion yet). If you like sharp, contrasty, small and light (and relatively inexpensive in Leica terms), the Elmarit is a good match to the 50mm APO across the frame, except perhaps the farthest corners.

I also own the Elmar 24mm - and it is possibly an even better match to the APO - but I find that, in actual usage, those 4mm in focal length make a bigger difference than one would expect.


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#8 Fedro

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:46

I have used or owned a lot of the current 28s. They are all good, to be honest

 

the Lux has a lot of pop - at least to my eyes. it is big but not huge and great for portraits. 1.4 is definitely not a must have at 28

 

the Cron is a great lens, fabulous all rounder and perfect combo of size and speed. Probably one of the best I have ever used in terms of ergonomics. I have read of focus shift problems by others, but have not witnessed any personally

 

the Elmarit is a really fun lens, very sharp and well corrected. Light and discrete. I found it a little too contrasty - especially in strong light - but that is a matter of taste

 

the Summaron (new version) - has a very unique, almost organic and earthy rendering which, again, is a matter of personal taste. Vignetting too. Quality is very good, though I felt the Elmarit was better in this aspect

 

I have not used the 24 you mention, although it has its fans on this forum and have seen beautiful pictures made with it.

 

Personally I like to have a little bit of speed for flexibility, so my choice would be a good copy of the 28 Cron, which is also very sharp (though not clinical). Try one or look for a second hand one that you can try for focus shift if that is a concern


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#9 lct

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:06

[...] 2.28mm summicron.Focus shift problem? [...]

 

 

None that i'm aware of.  


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#10 tom0511

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:29

For me the Summicrons are the sweetest compromise of speed, size and price.

I vote for the 28 Summicron.

 

I am bit like you, sold my M10 when I got a x1d but recently bought another M10 since I missed the optical viewfinder, simple pure user interface of the M10 and the small lenses.


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#11 MarkP

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:41

The 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH is fabulous lens. I also have the 2.8/28 Elmarit and prefer the Summicron. I have no interest in the 28 Summilux and I otherwise have my fair share of fast lenses.  

 

I've had no focus shift issues with the 28 Summicron - this is a non-issue (assuming of course that you get a well-calibrated lens).

 

I have the previous ASPH version. Took the new version home for a head-to-head comparison.  There is no difference whatsoever in the character of the imaging, and my original lens had better corners than the new one :-0  Needless to say I returned the new one and am very happy with my original lens.

 

Mark


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#12 indergaard

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:55

The 24mm Elmar is a fantastic lens that draws in much the same way as other modern lenses (50 APO and 35 Lux FLE for example). It's got some clarity and transparency to it, especially with the right light, that you won't see in the 28mm Summicron. The 28 cron is what I would consider a "classic" lens, which draws more like a 35 Summicron than a 35 Summilux FLE, so you will not get the same brilliance from the 28mm Summicron as you will get from the 24mm Elmar.

 

I haven't tried the other 28mm options.


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#13 01af

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:32

All three of the current M 28 mm Asph lenses are excellent and team well with the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph. So it's just a matter of size and speed. I agree that for a two-lens outfit for a Leica M camera, 28+50 makes more sense than 24+50, simply due to the viewfinder having framelines for 28 mm but none for 24 mm.

I don't like the Summilux-M 28 mm Asph's weight, odd filter size, and viewfinder obstruction. In terms of performance, however, it will make your jaw drop, especially wide open. But then, the other 28 mm lenses are no worse, just smaller and lighter (and more affordable).

The Elmarit-M 28 mm Asph has the same filter size as the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph which is no small advantage when actually using filters. Personally, I chose the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph (current version) as the best compromise between size and speed.

 

... that you won't see in the 28 mm Summicron.


Obviously you haven't tried the current version of the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph yet.

 

I have the previous Asph version [of the 28 mm Summicron]. Took the new version home for a head-to-head comparison. There is no difference whatsoever in the character of the imaging, and my original lens had better corners than the new one. Needless to say I returned the new one and am very happy with my original lens.


That's strange because the new version of the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph is so much better than the original one. However the field curvature is different, so depending on your subject and your focusing, the corners may seem less sharp with the new version. That's why I'm always saying: Never try to assess a lens' virtues after just one single test! When focsing properly, the new version's corners at f/2 are sharper than the original version's corners at f/5.6. That said, the original version definitely is no slouch. But the new version is clearly better, and not just at pixel-peeping level.
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#14 MarkP

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:47

The 24mm Elmar is a fantastic lens that draws in much the same way as other modern lenses (50 APO and 35 Lux FLE for example). It's got some clarity and transparency to it, especially with the right light, that you won't see in the 28mm Summicron. The 28 cron is what I would consider a "classic" lens, which draws more like a 35 Summicron than a 35 Summilux FLE, so you will not get the same brilliance from the 28mm Summicron as you will get from the 24mm Elmar.

 

I haven't tried the other 28mm options.

 

I agree with this in general. The 28 Summicron ASPH pairs better with the 50 Summilux, probably bridging the gap between the older Mandlers and the new Karbe lenses) but I like the Summicron best amongst the 28s. It is not however what I'd describe as 'classic rendering'.

 

The APO-50, 21 SEM, 24 Elmar,, 28 Summilux and 35 Summilux FLE do indeed have that more modern 'transparent' rendering you describe.


Edited by MarkP, 13 June 2018 - 11:51.


#15 lct

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:49

Well i have all those lenses more or less (not the 28/1.4) but i hardly see less brilliance out of 28/2 v1 or v2 compared to 24/3.8. What is sure is the latter has among the best performances available but it is a slow lens compared to Summicrons. If you're after the same FTM curves as those of the 50/2 apo, you won't find any on M wides anyway. As for 28/2 v1 and v2, i hardly see obvious differences i must say but i don't shoot at infinity normally. All i can say is neither has focus shift problems as far as my copies are concerned at least. FWIW.


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#16 MarkP

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:50

That's strange because the new version of the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph is so much better than the original one. However the field curvature is different, so depending on your subject and your focusing, the corners may seem less sharp with the new version. That's why I'm always saying: Never try to assess a lens' virtues after just one single test! When focsing properly, the new version's corners at f/2 are sharper than the original version's corners at f/5.6. That said, the original version definitely is no slouch. But the new version is clearly better, and not just at pixel-peeping level.

 

I don't doubt that but I tested on a tripod, Visoflex to confirm focus, cable release, multiple subjects, various distances at a few f-stops (2.0, 4.0, 8.0).The corners WERE less sharp. I suspect the new 28 Summicron I tested was faulty.  

 

Most importantly, there was NO difference in the character of the two lenses to justify the upgrade. I could not tell them apart except for the corners I described above. Mine WAS the better lens.  Regardless I decided against the upgrade, am happy with my current lens, GAS gone...for the moment :-)


Edited by MarkP, 13 June 2018 - 11:54.


#17 agencal

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:52

Thank you all for your great inputs.

 

When i look at flickr i see nearly all 28mm summicron shots are soft and oldschool.They do not seem to have the clearence of new designed lenses like 21 sem,24 elmar or 50 apo.Am i missing something or the new cron is totally different?



#18 01af

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:27

Am I missing something or the new 28 mm Summicron is totally different?


The original version of the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph indeed was kind of 'soft'—which however must not be confused with 'lack of sharpness.' The softness rather refers to the rendition of tones, not to detail. The new version has a unique way of keeping part of that softness and improving on sharpness and transparency at the same time. I had the old version and was happy with it until I tried the new one.

 

However, in order to really shine, my copy needed an extra trip to Leica Camera's Customer Care for some fine-adjustment.


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#19 indergaard

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 14:26

Thank you all for your great inputs.

 

When i look at flickr i see nearly all 28mm summicron shots are soft and oldschool.They do not seem to have the clearence of new designed lenses like 21 sem,24 elmar or 50 apo.Am i missing something or the new cron is totally different?

 

 

I don't think the latest version of the cron is that much different. It is based on the same optical formula as the older version. The improvements come from more rounded aperture blades and probably upgraded coatings, as well as higher precision in manufacturing to accomodate the requirements of high resolution digital sensors.

 

I wouldn't expect the same results from a 28/f2 as from a 24/3.8. The Elmar (and 21 Super Elmar) are designed with less versatility in mind, since they are far slower lenses. But it seems they at the same time are better corrected, has significantly less field curvature, and are optimized for architecture, landscape, good contrast and saturation, light and detail, which makes them render images with more brilliance and tonal depth based on my impression. The wide-angle Summicrons are far more versatile, but they are not as well corrected as the slower lenses for landscape, architecture, and these types of pictures. The wide-angle Summilux'es are even more versatile, but are typically even less corrected for field curvature, etc, than the Summicrons.

 

A 28 does pair better with a 50 though. And you don't have to use external viewfinders or live view. I find that 24 pairs better with a 35, but I can also use 24/50/90 comfortably. The 35 is more or less my daily driver and walkaround lens, and the 24/50/90 combo comes out when I photograph with some intent.


Edited by indergaard, 13 June 2018 - 14:36.

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#20 tom0511

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 14:38

I have read that some people prefer the new 28 Summicron over the older...I have the older 28asph and must say I have allways like this lens a lot. I dont find it soft at all. I would say the differences between the lenses are smaller than some might suggest. I am also a fan of the 50APO and like to bring either the 28/2.0 with it or the 35/2.0 (or the 35FLE if I need f1.4).


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