Influence APO-Extender-R 2x on SL lens profiles?

[AndreasAM]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Can anyone shed some light on the way the APO-Extender-R 2x influences the image quality when using an R-lens with the specific lens profile on the SL? I know that selecting the APO-Extenders as lens profile isn't an option. But what delivers the optimum result?

 

Leica doesn't provide any specific information about this. I assume that using the specific lens profile for the lens in combination with an APO-Externder-R is preferable than using the lens profile for that focal length of the lens times two.

For instance, for my hiking trip in the Pyrenees this summer, I want to use my APO Summicron-R 90mm./2 with the APO-Extender. I intend to use the lens profile of the Summicron and not of the APO-Telyt 180mm/f3.4 or something similar. I am using an Adapter R-L by the way.

 

I intend to use, besides the APO-Summicron, also the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm./f2.8 and the APO-Telyt 180mm./3.4 with the APO-Extender-R 2x. Other than that I will be taking a Elmarit-R 28mm./2.8 version II

on my trip. This is more or less a reasonable "light" SL- system, that I can carry into the mountains. When a day will be really a tough ascend I will probably leave the Telyt and/or Summicron at my place of origin. I will use the longer FL's, if necessary, together with a lightweight Berlebach mini Tripod or beanbag.

 

I am also aware that the Telyt isn't specifically designed to use it in combination with an extender, but so far I can't really complain about the image quality of the duo at infinity.

 

Does anyone have some specific experiences on the SL with the Extenders and these lenses?

 

Thanks in advance for any sane reaction.....

Edited June 12, 2018 by AndreasAM

[jaapv]

You will use the APO extenders with long lenses; there are no significant lens correction profiles for long lenses, with or without extender. So it makes no difference.

Note that Leica advises to stop down one stop in critical situations on the 2x APO extender. However, I never could establish any advantage by doing so. The extender works splendidly with the 180 APO Telyt. 

In any case, if your extender is ROM (and the lens as well), the L adapter R will transmit its presence.

 

In general, on Leica lenses, the "lens corrections", be it in camera or in Lightroom, have very little effect. The camera will only correct vignetting and (if present) colour shift, which is something the SL does not exhibit.

The Lightroom profiles will address vignetting and distortion, which is virtually nil on longer Leica lenses, and many shorter ones as well.

So it is not even worth thinking about.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[AndreasAM]

Okay Jaap, thanks.

But in some cases I want to use the extender with the Macro-Elmarit 60mm. and the APO-Summicron 90 mm. and they have corrections in the profiles.  So my question still stands, what is the influence of the extender on the profiles in these cases?

I have a non-Rom Extender and some ROM-lenses by the way. But that doesn't stop me from selecting profiles.

Edited June 12, 2018 by AndreasAM

[jaapv]

Those corrections amount to virtually nothing. You will be hard pushed to notice whether they are off or on.

The Extender will work like an enlarging/cropping system, which means that any edge effects like vignetting will diminish instead of increase. (Things like CA etc. will be magnified, but will not be addressed by the correction) I would say, if you want to do anything, switch all corrections off.

[AndreasAM]

Well if this is really the case, than using a lens profile with an extender gives only the advantage of recording the original focal length in the Exif.

Unless someone has more information about which lens profiles corrects distortions in the shorter Fl-range.

I do recall that Scott Kirkpatrick dd some testing in the early days of the SL introduction. I will do a search.

 

By the way, I am not worried, just curious.........thus thinking

[scott kirkpatrick]

When the SL first came out there were seriously bad profiles in the firmware for five longer R lenses, but those were fixed in the first or second firmware update.  These were mostly vignetting corrections, done in the camera (and thus hard to undo).  As Jaap points out, distortion correction isn't much of an issue with longer lenses, and that is done during post processing of the DNG (or for a jpg, in the camera), so you have some options. 

 

I thought when the fancy R to L adapter with ROM support came out, there were complaints that once the APO extender was in use, you could no longer tell in the EXIF what lens was on the other side of the extender.  But Jaap doesn't seem to have that problem, and I haven't tried it.

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I don’t have the problem because I don’t have the L-R adapter . I use the L-M and coded Novoflex M-R. So I just know which lens. However, it should be readable, according to some people at Leica FWIIW.

[AndreasAM]

When the SL first came out there were seriously bad profiles in the firmware for five longer R lenses, but those were fixed in the first or second firmware update.  These were mostly vignetting corrections, done in the camera (and thus hard to undo).  As Jaap points out, distortion correction isn't much of an issue with longer lenses, and that is done during post processing of the DNG (or for a jpg, in the camera), so you have some options. 

 

I thought when the fancy R to L adapter with ROM support came out, there were complaints that once the APO extender was in use, you could no longer tell in the EXIF what lens was on the other side of the extender.  But Jaap doesn't seem to have that problem, and I haven't tried it.

Thanks Scott,

I have the R-L adapter but only the non-ROM Extender.... so I can’t check that either!

 

And by longer lenses you also mean the Macro Elmarit 60 and APO Summicron 90 mm.?

[scott kirkpatrick]

Thanks Scott,

I have the R-L adapter but only the non-ROM Extender.... so I can’t check that either!

 

And by longer lenses you also mean the Macro Elmarit 60 and APO Summicron 90 mm.?

The early firmware messed up the APO 90, the 100, one of the 180s and one of the 280s.  And perhaps one other, as I think there were 5.  You had to select a different profile for these at first, but it was cleared up.  I think the 60 was never a problem.

 

The way I tested back then was to put on one R lens, using two stacked R to M and M to L adapters, and then manually select each lens profile in turn, without actually changing the lens in use.  The bad profiles really showed up as grey rings around the edges.  But they are gone. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

I have a ROM-equipped APO 2X extender, but haven't used it recently, so I set up the 280 Telyt with and without the extender.  I got no useful EXIF with the extender in place and auto profile recognition enabled on my SL.  It just says lens not recognized, but the pictures come out fine.  (50% crop, about 10 m distance):

 

R1020179 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

And my results were a little sharper when I stopped down to f/5.6 (eff f/11).  I could do this because the tomatoes held still.

Edited June 13, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[AndreasAM]

Thanks Scott,

 

Great feedback!

 

I imagine that with an ROM-extender and ROM-lens, you still could manually select a lens profile, to secure some information in the EXIF?

The ROM Macro Adapter-R, which I own, doesn't function either., i.e. it doesn't pass the lens information to the SL.

 

I think Leica would serve us R-users. if they would make the ROM-Extenders and the ROM-Macro Adapter-R fully functional with a dedicated profile in combination with a lens profile to be additional selected. This to make the hole R-lens line and accessories fully adaptable to the SL, including the correct EXIF-information of the FL and corrections, when applicable.

 

 

But I think this wish is pie in the sky.....and I still be using them all to my full satisfaction.

[ramarren]

Frankly, I'd just try it with and without, see what it does (if anything). Who cares as long as what you get out of the lens meets your satisfaction.

 

G

[AndreasAM]

That’s what I am doing for the last couple of months with the SL and my R-lenses, Godfrey, taking a lot of pictures.

 

But sometimes curiosity kicks in and then I just want to know how things exactly work.........and learn from it.

And in both occasions, the pictures keep getting better........but still not good enough.

 

So I willl keep on trying and enjoy every minute of it!!

Edited June 14, 2018 by AndreasAM