Magenta looks scary for M240 with Summicron 35 ASPH

[fabregaszy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

First of all, say hi to all the members here as I'm a new coming.

 

Recently I've got a summicron 35 f/2 ASPH (11882) lens, when using it with my M240, I found sometimes it can produce very scary color for the very vivid part of the image, especially for magenta. Please check the attach files.

 

The flowers seems to be a mess and the color looks far more saturation than the real scenery saw by eyes.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Has anyone also encountered similar issues? What is related to?

 

The lens or the camera body? Or I didn't get it on focus but I also tried to close the aperture the issue still exists.

 

I tried to fix it in lightroom, it can become better and still very annoying. 
It also seems has something to do with white balance.

[jaapv]

You've  blown the red  highlights, i.e .the red channel is overexposed. Try exposing a bit less generously. Use the RGB histogram that the camera provides. It has nothing to do with focus.

Also update your camera to the newest firmware. The very first version had a problem with red highlights.

 

Your roses could do with a bit of cow dung  And a bit of weed spudding

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[LocalHero1953]

A common problem and not a 'fault' as such. It happens with all digital sensors, but is more visible because Leica's IR filters are thinner than with other brands, or so I understand. It was particularly bad with the M9 and certain skin tones, but the M240 is not immune, as you have shown. 

 

Solutions:

- latest firmware, as already said.

- shoot raw and use latest Adobe profile in ACR/LR/PS

- adjust white balance (this looks a bit blue/pink)

 

This normally sorts it. If not:

- use custom profile in Adobe.

- adjust colour sliders (Red hue to Orange hue, fiddle with Red saturation and luminance, and Magenta saturation & luminance). Save this as a preset and reuse when necessary (mine is called 'Pink Skin Reduction')

Edited June 12, 2018 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

If this were IR contamination (possible but I doubt it as there is no yellow shift on the leaves, on the contrary, it looks a bit on the blue side), a B+W 486 filter would be the solution.

[adan]

All of the above is true - HOWEVER - I have always found the 35mm f/2 ASPH to be one of Leica's most magenta/red lenses - AND - I always found the M240 to be overcooked on reds, especially rendering neutrals such as the earth in this picture (which is the main reason I stayed with an M9 until the M10 came out.)

 

The green/cyan (as opposed to red) bias of the Leitz/Canada "Mandler" lenses ca. 1980 is the main reason I also stick with those wherever possible. When I do have to use the more modern, pinker, Leica lenses, I always dial in 5-12 points green tint to the WB. But it is a patch - not the same as working with the older glass to begin with.

[lct]

Reds are indeed oversaturated on the M240 but i found the M9 rather reddish as well. I have only a little experience with it though but i don't take my M240 to shoot flowers generally or i underexpose by a couple of stops if needed. As for the 35/2 asph, my v1 copy looks reddish on the M240 for sure but not that much or at all on my A7s mod or digital CL cameras. Here just a snap with the 35/2 asph v1 on the CL, no red correction.

 

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Oversaturated is one thing, it is easy enough to manipulate the red channel as Andy indicates and save that, or even better, profile the camera individually in Lightroom or any other program, but there is nothing that will help you once the red channel is blown (i.e. exposed at a level beyond 100% pixel saturation).

The rose above is blown only in one minor spot, so that is no problem. One could even grey that petal out a bit by dodging.

[lct]

Reds are too easily blown on the M240. I can adjust this in PP to a certain extent but such efforts are needed on none of my other digital cameras.

[fabregaszy]

Thank you all for your comments. Glad to know that I'm not rare facing this situation.

Anyway, I love the camera and the lens, but this situation make me frustrating.

Though software processing can make things better but it still feels annoying. 

But all of the replies above make me feel much better now, although I may avoid to shot such red flowers since now 

 

I always keep the firmware the latest version (just as my phone apps), now the version is 2.0.5.0. 

Thanks Jaapv, I will try a B+W 846 filter to see if it could relief this.

Edited June 12, 2018 by fabregaszy

[jaapv]

Reds are too easily blown on the M240. I can adjust this in PP to a certain extent but such efforts are needed on none of my other digital cameras.

 

Just underexpose by 1/3rd to 2/3rd stop if you have pure red in the image, Look at the clipping warning in your image. use the RGB histogram.

[Richardgb]

As a general remark, reds are known to be difficult to reproduce in photography and printing.

 

Reds, too, are particularly vulnerable to colour space, so shoot and edit in AdobeRGB (check the camera menu), not sRGB.

[jaapv]

As a general remark, reds are known to be difficult to reproduce in photography and printing.

 

Reds, too, are particularly vulnerable to colour space, so shoot and edit in AdobeRGB (check the camera menu), not sRGB.

The OP mentioned Lightroom; that means Prophoto RGB.

 

If you really want to control colour, Photoshop and LAB are the best option.

[Luke_Miller]

I've had the same issue with my Nikons, so it is not a Leica unique problem.  International (or Blaze) Orange can be a problem as well.  I see the same on TV when watching golf.  Red shirts on players in full sun can blow out the red channel on the TV camera.

[fabregaszy]

I've had the same issue with my Nikons, so it is not a Leica unique problem.  International (or Blaze) Orange can be a problem as well.  I see the same on TV when watching golf.  Red shirts on players in full sun can blow out the red channel on the TV camera.

 

Exactly, I also experienced the same problem with orange.

[Luke_Miller]

This problem is significant enough that Nikon has a metering mode to prevent it.  Called "Highlight Weighted Metering" it monitors each color channel separately and limits overall exposure to keep any from overexposure.

 

As adan points out the M-240 (and in my experience the M8.2 and M9) are overly sensitive to reds.  Someone I photograph regularly has a complexion that is slightly ruddy and my digital Leica bodies have always exaggerated that characteristic. I create custom camera profiles to bring reds back to a more normal level.

[Gregm61]

I don't even bother looking at the over/under exposure graph and go strictly by the histogram when composing through the EVF-2, which helps a great deal and I find myself using more and more. Avoid clipping any highlights and you can get the exposure where you want in the end at any time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sblutter]

And then there's the monitor problem

 

Print some up and see what they look like.  Unless you're diligently calibrating your monitor often (they fluctuate like crazy), what you're looking at is meaningless.

 

And who knows what your viewers are looking at - a phone, tablet, high-end monitor?

 

One cheap way is to make a print before any adjustments to the file are made - then calibrate the monitor to match the print as close as possible.  Then make your corrections

 

PS:  The only problem I've had is well known:  purple velvet.  Getting that to print correctly is a nightmare of selections, layers etc. - and even then barely just.  No issues with red, magenta etc:  M240 & many lenses incl 35 Summi 2.0 ASPH

[ECohen]

I don't even bother looking at the over/under exposure graph and go strictly by the histogram when composing through the EVF-2, which helps a great deal and I find myself using more and more. Avoid clipping any highlights and you can get the exposure where you want in the end at any time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have handled the Reds wonderfully. Are you saying all you do, is avoid clipping and then fix the rest in Post?

 I would love to find a way where I'm not putting so much time into every shot.  Reds are a pain with the M240

Could you please give me more detail on your technique .......please?

[jaapv]

And then there's the monitor problem

 

Print some up and see what they look like.  Unless you're diligently calibrating your monitor often (they fluctuate like crazy), what you're looking at is meaningless.

 

And who knows what your viewers are looking at - a phone, tablet, high-end monitor?

 

One cheap way is to make a print before any adjustments to the file are made - then calibrate the monitor to match the print as close as possible.  Then make your corrections

 

PS:  The only problem I've had is well known:  purple velvet.  Getting that to print correctly is a nightmare of selections, layers etc. - and even then barely just.  No issues with red, magenta etc:  M240 & many lenses incl 35 Summi 2.0 ASPH

Have you ever tried to get Lavender flowers on film? Or even worse - Jacaranda trees.   Purple is the hardest colour to approximate in a photograph.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

One thing I can say: Profile your camera by Colorchecker Passport, don't overexpose and use the RGB histogram, calibrate your monitor regularly (it does render Adobe RGB, doesn't it?) , edit in a wide colourspace and you will save a lot of time on the computer with better results.

 

And use an 486 filter when there is a lot of IR light around.